Unknown Stihl bar?

[bubbajunk]

I picked this up at a flea market for a buck this morning with hopes it would fit something I've got.
I was thinking its a normal Stihl mount but the slot measures 11.5mm and out of over a hundred chains I've got lying around here, I can't find a single one that fits in the groove.
There are some faint numbers on one end. 40280 35 and right below it there's a 8621.
The 8621 made me think that maybe its a 3003 000 8621 which would be for a 20" chain, .050" p and 72 links but I have plenty of those chains and they don't fit. They don't fit in the groove, by a long shot, and they're too short by a few inches. I also found it odd that the oil holes are drilled top and bottom and only on one side? I've never had a hard nose bar before, so I'm not sure what the norm is but the slot being 11.5mm. It was with the chain pictured, which is 3/8" x .o50" 72 drive links, but it don't fit this bar. Its about 7/8" longer than my stock 20" bar with a roller tip and about 1/4" wider. The oil holes are only on the one side so I guess you don't flip these bars? What pitch in a bar this length was narrower than .050"?
.050" not only don't fit, its not even close. The bar has minimal wear, most of the chain groove still has paint showing on the edges. The chain fits my Tanaka which takes 3/8" x .050" 72 links, so I know the chain is what is marked on the box. No matter what, for a buck, a new chain and a used bar is a deal I guess.

 

[Ozhoo]

My chinesium spidey sense is tingling something fierce

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

My chinesium spidey sense is tingling something fierce

Did wonder- never seen a direct copy with the Stihl graphics being that good- but maybe.
The oiler holes sharing the same side of the bar certainly should not have slipped past German quality control.........

Did they ever make a 20"Duramatic in 0.043 Picco?

Made in WEST Germany would make it a couple or three decades old would it not?
Would the copy cats bother with adding a WEST?

 

[bubbajunk]

It don't look or 'feel' like Chinesium, besides, the "West Germany" would put it pre-1989 or earlier.

Even being 30+ years old, I didn't think Stihl changed their bar patterns over that period?
I own an 032 and an 041, both from the early 80's, both share bar patterns with my 029.
My thought was what uses a 11.5mm bar slot? The oil holes can be moved/plugged to match any saw.
The woman who was selling the thing also had other vintage tools on the table, but she was mostly selling household items.
Old kitchen wares and such. She wasn't a regular, likely just a weekly table renter trying to raise Christmas cash.
There were two boxes of the chain, both 3/8"x.050" x 72t. I also bought a vintage 'locomotive' type Skil belt sander for a buck, and and an older Matabo 9" grinder with of grinding wheels for $10. (The grinding wheels didn't fit the grinder, but were also Matabo made in W Germany). She didn' haveanything else saw related.
It was a chilly, miserable day the with a constant drizzle and 12mph or wind, I just figured she was in a hurry to unload everything and go home. I didn't stick around there long myself.

The bar fits on my 029, and 036P but there's a butt load of movement up and down due to the oversized slot.

The only thing I had handy to measure the groove with was a cheap hacksaw blade which just fits into the groove tightly. I knew it looked thin when I picked it up but for a buck I took the chance. I also thought the slot looked wide on it but again, for a buck, in the cold and rain, I took the chance. If nothing else it'll get hung on the wall.

I've got .043" Picco and its too wide. Its close but it won't even start to drop into the groove.
If you look real close at the bar, you can see that the very edge of the bar is different metal, there's a fine seam about 1/4" from the edge all the way around. The bar itself appears to be solid. Its got no wear pattern on it but its been used. Its pretty heavy compared to the original laminated bar that came on my 036P.
I have another 20" Duramatic bar but its marked both .325 x 81t and .375 x 72t right on the side and the oil holes are drilled all the way through. I found that one while cleaning out my uncles barn. Its marked just 'Germany' and has a 12.3 mm slot.

Did Stihl have a 7/16" mount in the past? Maybe its a lot older than I was thinking?

 

[bubbajunk]

I dug up an old feeler gauge set, the bar groove on this thing measures .039" or basically 1 mm.
I can't say I've ever seen a chain with drive links that thin?
I'm wondering if I can just cut this groove open to .050? The bar is pretty thick, thicker than most smaller gauge chains.
Now I'm really wondering what this was used for or what it came off of.
Maybe its older than I first thought?

 

[ray benson]

Hard nosed bars - the nose area is reinforced with a hard surface for long life. Some used Stellite on the noses.

 

[HarleyT]

Some used Stellite on the noses

I did an image search on stellite noses.........

 

[holeycow]

You sure you didn't search "pencil neck"?

 

[HarleyT]

She was quite aerodynamic....

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Maybe it was a loose 050 and was sent in to the shop to be rolled- shop apprentice got the job- and over tweaked it?

 

[farmer steve]

Hard nosed bars - the nose area is reinforced with a hard surface for long life. Some used Stellite on the noses.

I thought you might have some old info on the hard nose bars Ray with old bar part #s.

 

[ray benson]

I thought you might have some old info on the hard nose bars Ray with old bar part #s.

Oldest Stihl Bar and Chain manual I have is dated 2003.

 

[bubbajunk]

With the "West Germany" on this bar its definitely pre 1990 or so. I just don't know how far back.
If they rolled it, the sides are still perfectly flat, no sign of rolling. Plus, there's still spots where the factory paint hasn't worn off where the chain rides.
I don't think its seen enough use to be worn out.
I'm thinking of just getting it recut to fit .050 regardless, its no use to me the way it is.
Years ago I dealt with a saw shop that had a bar grinder set up, it had one wheel to square the edges, and another to grind the groove to spec after it had been rolled. The groove cutter sort of looked like a big router table with a flat blade to cut the groove with as the bar was passed through on each side.
That place has been gone for decades though. I have a clamp on grinder to square bar edges but nothing to cut the groove.
Not that a hard nose bar is all that important to me though, if I never use it, I can just hang it on the wall I guess.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Machine shop, mill and slitting saw. Will cost you more than a $1 bar, but will work.
From what I can remember, the 70's decal was different (or at least early to mid 70's) had orange stripe, STIHL and another lower orange stripe- so would place that style of decal in the mid to late 80's maybe?

 

[bubbajunk]

A machine shop is an option but I was thinking that maybe an older saw shop may still have a bar dressing set up.
The machine I remember was a cast iron table about 18x18 inches, with a flat cutting wheel that stuck up at the right height above the table. There was an adjustable fence and the guy would set the height of the cutter, and pass the bar past it. He then took the bar over to a flat stone with a 90 degree table and 'squared' the edges. The whole deal took 5 minutes. They would do that to almost any saw that came in for a sharpening or service.
The blade sort of reminded me of a 4 1/2" cut off wheel. They had several sized cutters for various widths. Some were steel blades, some were abrasive discs. Of course, I haven't seen that cutter anywhere else and the last time I remember being there was in the early to mid 80's.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

A machine shop is an option but I was thinking that maybe an older saw shop may still have a bar dressing set up.
The machine I remember was a cast iron table about 18x18 inches, with a flat cutting wheel that stuck up at the right height above the table. There was an adjustable fence and the guy would set the height of the cutter, and pass the bar past it. He then took the bar over to a flat stone with a 90 degree table and 'squared' the edges. The whole deal took 5 minutes. They would do that to almost any saw that came in for a sharpening or service.
The blade sort of reminded me of a 4 1/2" cut off wheel. They had several sized cutters for various widths. Some were steel blades, some were abrasive discs. Of course, I haven't seen that cutter anywhere else and the last time I remember being there was in the early to mid 80's.

You mean back in the good old days when you bought something that was quality made and had it repaired/refurbished throughout it's service life- not like buy something, take it back for repairs and be told by some pizza faced teen that you can't repair that- you just bin it and buy another........ those were the days, I miss those days.......

 

[rogue60]

Something odd with that bar my guess is it's a Chinese fake oil holes only on one side? WTF and it doesn't have what you would call age to it looks to new maybe for them fake 070's they make it looks like a large mount?
As you say what chain would it have run being 1mm?
Here's new Stihl hard nose bars for ms660 in 20 and 25 inch .404 1.6mm as for quality they look much better than that bar you have.
I have no idea what that bar is you have or what chain fits it someone out there might?

 

[ray benson]

Bar looks right -
https://store.chainsawr.com/products/21-stihl-duromatic-chainsaw-bar-and-chain-3002-000-9223-new
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Carburettor-Fits-Stihl-Chainsaw-1106/dp/B013GVJEG0

 

[bubbajunk]

I doubt if this thing is from China, it doesn't look very new, and the finish on it is the old almost textured off white that Stihl used years ago.
(The newer bars are smoother finished).

By chance I was talkin to an old timer today at a truck stop diner. He was telling me he ran a tree service for 40 years, we got to talking about older equipment and old saws a bit and I described the bar I picked up and I told him the size of the slot was 11.5mm. Hhe said its likely a "455" bar for an 041 or even an older model. When I was leaving, he called me over to his pickup truck, and handed me two studs. He said he don't own anything that size any more so I could have them.
He had no clue on the slot size but he dug around in the backs seat and pulled out a bar grinder with a double cutting wheel on it, the wheel is only about 1 1/2" in diameter but it fits the arbor on the cutter. It basically looks like a bar grinder but with a thin .050" cutter mounted behind the grinding stone. Both the cutter and the stone are on the same arbor with a bronze spacer in between them.

When I got home, I clamped the thing in a vise, centered the cutter on the bar's edge, and passed the bar over the cutter slowly and it now fits a .050 chain. It took two passes but its a near perfect fit. The bracket has a roller arm that holds the bar to one side of the bracket to guarantee a straight cut.
The location of cutter can be raised or lowered to make a wider cut by making a second pass. Its green/gray in color and branded 'Foley/Belsaw'. To grind the slot you use the bottom, inside of the angle with the motor sitting upright, to grind the bar edge, you mount in horizontal in the vise and use the stone on the outside of the angle bracket. The thing looks pretty old but its not all that different from the bar grinder sold by Bailey's but with a larger motor and the second cutter option.

I tried to pay him something for the cutter but he didn't want any money, he said if it works for me, bring him a case of beer.
He had more parts in his old crew cab pickup than the local dealer has on the shelf.
I guess bringing the old guy a case of beer the next time I'm down that way may get me a look at anything else he may have. Who knows what an old timer like him may have accumulated over time.

He said they sold the studs back in the day so you could run the older Homelite bars that many guys already had before they ever heard of Stihl saws. No clue who made the studs, but they fit my 036P perfect.

 

[Philbert]

. . . pulled out a bar grinder with a double cutting wheel on it, the wheel is only about 1 1/2" in diameter but it fits the arbor on the cutter. It basically looks like a bar grinder but with a thin .050" cutter mounted behind the grinding stone. Both the cutter and the stone are on the same arbor with a bronze spacer in between them. . . . When I got home, I clamped the thing in a vise, centered the cutter on the bar's edge, and passed the bar over the cutter slowly and it now fits a .050 chain. It took two passes but its a near perfect fit. The bracket has a roller arm that holds the bar to one side of the bracket to guarantee a straight cut.
The location of cutter can be raised or lowered to make a wider cut by making a second pass. Its green/gray in color and branded 'Foley/Belsaw'. To grind the slot you use the bottom, inside of the angle with the motor sitting upright, to grind the bar edge, you mount in horizontal in the vise and use the stone on the outside of the angle bracket. The thing looks pretty old but its not all that different from the bar grinder sold by Bailey's but with a larger motor and the second cutter option.

Photos?

Thanks.

Philbert