Update/088 clutch slipping

[z4lunch]

Well, I got my 088 back from the dealer. No issues... Ran a tank through her last night. About 4 tanks total, runs fine. Still can stall the chain if I dig the dogs in and lean on her. Owners manual says 5 to 15 tankfulls of gas before you get full power. I wonder how much diference that makes. The saw does cut fast, real fast
how come the dogscan stop the chain,(dumb question) what are the dogs really for.
Steve
025
088

 

[John in MA]

It depends on how hard you're leaning, but you shouldn't be able to stop an 088 like that. My Jonsey 111S isn't as powerful a saw as yours, and I can stand on it without slowing down.

Do you have your manual? The dogs or spikes are for felling. You dig them in at the base of the cut you're going to make and pivot on them. Allows for more control. Just made some for my big saw.

The Johnspike Mk. II's lookin' pretty scary...

 

[oakman]

well, i've run just about every large displacement saw there is. i have an opened up 066, an 088, a mac super pro 125, an unknown saw with a west bend 820, i've cut with an 090, a 3120, and a ported and piped 088, and i can tell ya that they all can be chain stalled in a hard wood like ash or walnut if you lean on 'em hard enough. maybe you accidentally filed the rakers too low. that will put a lot more load on the saw. i think you are just expecting the saw to be unstoppable, and thats not the case. get a rotax, then you'll be happy!

 

[formersawrep]

The reason the "spikes" are called felling spikes or felling dogs is because they are intended to be used for leverage when FELLING trees not bucking. If everything is working properly, the fastest, most efficient cut is achieved by the bar going vertically through the log, with no rocking motion.

I would argue that an 090 Stihl has the most torque(not horsepower, because torque is more important to this subject) of any saw ever produced and it can be stalled by leveraging the felling spikes when bucking.

Watch the saw races and see how many spikes you see being used or even on the saws.

 

[stihltech]

088

It is hard to show someone that the weight of the saw ONLY will cut as fast as possible with a sharp chain. I quit using spikes and feel I cut firewood faster by letting the saw slide gown the side of the log. It also makes me keep the chain sharper, ALWAYS a good thing.

My demonstration when showing a saw is to start the cut with two hands and let the saw finish with the top hand about 2 or 3 inches away from the handlebar. DO NOT try this unless you know the posibility of kickback is ZERO.
I have customers who saw back and forth as they saw, tilt the saw for and aft, and push so hard they stop the chain. Wood cutting is work enough, let the saw do it's job, and you will work a lot less.

 

[kdhotsaw]

Chain cutting speed

Hello Stihltech,
your statement,It is hard to show someone that the weight of the saw ONLY will cut as fast as possible with a sharp chain is incorrect. you'll be standing there all day trying to cut a cord of wood or to fall a tree. with a chain that is sharp and the raker height set properly pushing with the right amount of pressure will cut much faster. if you lower the rakers for more clearance it will feed better but still cut much faster with pressure or push. most of our loggers we build woods saws for set thier rakers too low so they can bump the limbs off fast, 35-40 thousands, it works cutting limbs but when they fell or buck a tree they cant bury the saw with the dogs or they will stall the saw in the cut.if you set the rakers to high the opposite happens, you push but the saw doesn't cut near as fast . if you cut the way you described the forman would run you down the road within the first hour of the first dayon your strip
kdhotsaw

 

[oakman]

i agree with kd, i think raker height is a critical factor. i also think with a high horsepower saw that you can find a happy medium in raker height for what you want the saw to do. most chain makers say 25 thou, but i personally don't think thats enough for good production. it's fine for the smaller saws. on the other hand, too much clearance, and the saw will stall easily. i have found that 35 thou on full chisel chain is a good all around clearance for 6 cubes and over saws. it self feeds well, and you don't have to push too hard. however, on some hardwoods like hickory, it's a bit too much.

 

[stihltech]

rakers

The rakers will defintly make a difference. Guess I have went by a guage so long I don't know what the measurement is.
But, on my saw, I don't push unless I am dropping a tree. Bucking up it is the weight of the saw. And I cut my 20 cord in just a few days. Guess I am doing it wrong. Just give me those big chips flying out.

 

[oakman]

well, i'm not a pro logger either, so i'm not under any kinda pressure to get maximum production, but as kd said, there are probably guys who work in the woods for a living who need to get the max possible performance out of their saws. and in doing so, may go a little to far on the raker clearance. as a carpenter/cabinetmaker/amatuer logger/chainsawnut for the last 30 years or so, i can understand that for sure. i have experimented with this myself, and have ruined more than a few chains doing it. you can always take a little more off, but it's awful hard to put it back on! i like the self feeding characteristics of a chain with .035 clearance on my bigger saws. as long as you keep the power up , youre ok. (lol, who cuts at part throttle), but it does put more load on the powerhead, for sure. i barely push on it when bucking logs, and rarely use the dogs, only when felling, and more to hold the saw in position than for leverage. if you're getting what you feel are good results with your chain setup/ technique, then i would stick with it. i'm the curious type, so always looking for a better, faster way. as john in ma says "MORE POWER". peace brother

 

[Art Martin]

This subject keeps coming up every now and then. To put this subject to rest, it is easy to prove that pressure by the operator makes the saw cut faster. All one has to do is make one cut in a log without applying pressure, just use the weight of the saw while someone times the cut. Then make the second cut while applying pressure but not to lower the r.p.m.'s too much. The result is that second cut will be much faster. If you have watched single crosscut sawyers make a speed cut and then watched two men making a cut with the same saw on the same log, they can cut it in half the time of the single bucker. The reason is that the two buckers apply much more down pressure than just the weight of the saw.
The depth of the rakers depends on how far back the tooth has been filed back. The progressive system should be used. When the tooth is new and the raker is down .025", the equivilant to a tooth that is filed back to the rear rivet is .038". On my 090 Stihl, I can lower the rakers .060" plus without lowering the r.p.m.s on a 20" white fir log.
Art Martin

 

[oakman]

art,
how would that .060" clearance perform on say a 24" hickory log? just curious. i cut mostly hardwood round here and i tried .060 once on my 088, and althought it would pull it, it was hard to handle, would grab and stall in the cut. i think it was in hard maple. still got the chain. never tried it in any soft wood. someday i will.............

 

[Art Martin]

oakman,
I have never cut hickory, since during my career as a west coast faller, we only cut Redwood and Douglas Fir.
I would never recommend .060" raker depth to cut hardwoods. Especially when using smaller cubic inch chainsaws, I would recommend .025" on a new chain and like I said before, .038" on a chain where the tooth has reached the rear rivet. This way the operator can adjust to the speed of the cut by applying downward pressure, thus maintaining the proper r.p.m.s which is very important. A full compliment, chisel tooth chain when filed properly with the proper file is much smoother and faster cutting than a skip tooth chain or full compliment chain that has been filed with a round file.
Art Martin

 

[JimL]

On my 066's i tend to run my rakers at around 30-35 thou. with 8 tooth sprockets...

 

[stihltech]

rakers

I admit I have never cut any soft wood. All beech and maple here.