USFS and Stimulus Bill

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http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20090219%2FNEWS%2F902190335%2F-1%2Frss01

Forestry's share of stimulus bill will go to jobs, fire prevention

U.S. Forest Service and BLM officials wish to create the largest number of jobs in the least amount of time

February 19, 2009
By Paul Fattig
Mail Tribune

Shovel-ready projects that will put people to work quickly while improving forest health and reducing the likelihood of catastrophic wildfires near rural communities will be the focus of federal economic stimulus money earmarked for the U.S. Forest Service and U.S. Bureau of Land Management in Oregon.

That was the message Regional Forester Mary Wagner and BLM state director Ed Shepard gave to U.S. Rep. Greg Walden, R-Hood River, during a video conference Wednesday.

"The instruction we've been given for prioritization is to give the greatest weight to projects that will create the largest number of jobs in the shortest period of time and which will create lasting value for the American public," Shepard said.

"This is an employment opportunity outside the federal sector," Wagner stressed. "We will address our key priorities and put people back to work."

Wagner and Shepard are the top officials in Oregon and Washington for their respective agencies. Neither Wagner nor Shepard know how much of the stimulus money will be available for their agencies in Oregon, but they indicated there likely will be millions of dollars for hazardous fuels reduction, forest health improvements, habitat rehabilitation and hazard mitigation around abandoned mines.

The Forest Service will include short-term projects that could be funded as early as the end of the week and long-term projects ready to go by the end of the month, Wagner said.

The stimulus package is expected to make $1.15 billion available to the Forest Service nationwide beyond its already planned work, Wagner said, including $650 million for working on roads, trails, abandoned mines, watershed restoration and ecosystem enhancement. An additional $500 million would be earmarked for reducing wildfire threats.

Nationally, the BLM and other Department of the Interior agencies will receive funding in three areas, including $125 million for forest health and restoration, $180 million for construction of roads and bridges and deferred maintenance, and $15 million for high-priority hazardous fuels treatment, Shepard said.

"Right now, we have approximately $13 million in shovel-ready projects (in Oregon) above and beyond what our normal work plans are for the next few years," he said.

"Our prime focus is going to be on fuels reduction in critical areas of the wildland-urban interface with the majority of those lands that need treatment being in Southwest Oregon, Central and Eastern Oregon," he added.

Those projects already have cleared regulatory hurdles, he said, and most of the contracts are likely to go to small businesses, Shepard said.

"These projects would not only save jobs that are out there now, but they would restore employment to laid-off forest workers and could create new jobs," he said. "They will take large crews to accomplish the work."

Shepard expects to learn the exact allocation by the end of next week.

"I think Oregon will compete pretty well for the funds because we do have a skilled work force here," he said.

Both stressed that their agencies have reached out to other federal, state and local agencies and nongovernmental organizations for suggestions.

"We don't hold all the best ideas," Wagner said. "We want to make sure that we're inviting great opportunities for others to join with us in accomplishing important work."

Walden encouraged Wagner and Shepard to use the money to hire commercial contractors to treat areas most susceptible to catastrophic wildfire, and target resources in areas of rural Oregon with the highest unemployment rates.

He also urged that funds be used to promote forest health in areas such as the roughly 350,000-acres of bug-killed timber in the Fremont-Winema National Forest.

Reach reporter Paul Fattig at 776-4496 or e-mail him at [email protected].
 
The word I hear inside agency circles is that fire prevention and fuels reduction budgets for all land management agencies will be doubled under the stimulus. I work for Dept. of Interior and I've tentatively been told to plan for about four times the amount of fuels reduction work (over what we did last year) via contracting at my work station.
 
Check your seatbelts....

grab as much as you can gentleman,it may be the only part of the bazillions that you may get direct access to.
Stock the pantry,and keep your cash safe.
Keep the blunderbuss at the ready and "prepare to repell boarders"

ak4195
 
We have three real nice FS sales ready for the loggers... No mills to take the logs to. :mad::mad::bang::bang::angrysoapbox:
 
We just bid a fuels reduction project that is part of a federal grant, $83 million. I don't know if this is part of the spendulous package or not.

Most likely not. The internal memo we got said that the bulk of the 'targeted spending' wouldn't start until late summer '09....

We have three real nice FS sales ready for the loggers... No mills to take the logs to. :mad::mad::bang::bang::angrysoapbox:

Same thing here. We had a massive fuels reduction project slated for two years ago which involved the contractor using a feller-buncher to remove stems tree length out to service roads, and the contractor would get the wood for free and market it. They couldn't find a mill within a day's drive that wanted the stuff for any price.
 
We have three real nice FS sales ready for the loggers... No mills to take the logs to. :mad::mad::bang::bang::angrysoapbox:



Same thing here. Have one as soon as the snow melts enough to get to it. They are going to chip every thing under 24" and sell for bio fuel.
 
We have three real nice FS sales ready for the loggers... No mills to take the logs to. :mad::mad::bang::bang::angrysoapbox:

Ding! Ding! Ding!

That porkUS bill could give a ratsass about creating jobs.

Think about it, part of the Healthy Forest Act was to maintain defendable spaces while allowing logging operations the opportunity, reducing what it would cost the goverment.

The Democrats fought it tooth and nail.

If the liberals really wanted to give the housing market a shot in the arm, 'GIVE' away some timber to stimulate the milling industry. Let the milling industry stimulate building supply materials for housing.
The old 'This is the house that Larry built, out of wood that Mark milled, that came from the tree that Deeker cut while trying to get America off her ass' story, probably heard it a 1000 times?)

Anyone surprised that idea shot right over there head?
 
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Same thing here. Have one as soon as the snow melts enough to get to it. They are going to chip every thing under 24" and sell for bio fuel.

Yup, the FS guy in charge of the sales agreed with me, that with no mills--you'd just have truck fulls of firewood. We have a logging company here, that works in Sandpoint, ID... I was told that they are going to turn merchantable timber into firewood all this year, and sell it that way.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

That porkUS bill could give a ratsass about creating jobs.

Think about it, part of the Healthy Forest Act was to maintain defendable spaces while allowing logging operations the opportunity, reducing what it would cost the goverment.

The Democrats fought it tooth and nail.

If the liberals really wanted to give the housing market a shot in the arm, 'GIVE' away some timber to stimulate the milling industry. Let the milling industry stimulate building supply materials for housing.
The old 'This is the house that Larry built, out of wood that Mark milled, that came from the tree that Deeker cut while trying to get America off her ass' story, probably heard it a 1000 times?)

Anyone surprised that idea shot right over there head?

Every day that passes... The furrow between party-lines blurs... And all you will see is just BIGGER GUB'MENT! Parties won't mean ####.

This whole stimulus bill is going to do very little in the way of real economic growth or stimulus. Mostly what I see happening is the expansion of the leftist agenda.

Get ready to be greeted by Iceland, as we will soon be joining the "No Economy or Currency Club". Ahhh, how nice it will be.:dizzy:
 
If the markets not there

I'm retired but,

This last year in Central Oregon nice Ponderosa logs up to 16" diameter and OK Lodgepole logs were being chipped instead of taken to a mill for lumber. (We still have a few mills)

Scenario:
Housing market is gone.
Mills aren't cutting up much.
Very little sawdust etc being produced at mills.
Wood waste (sawdust) was used to power Hawg fuel power plants at mills.
Power is profitable.
Hawg fuel market goes up.
Good logs got chipped for Hawg fuel.

Good (small) logs - sob sob!

============

Simple economics.

If the market ain't there put off most of the logging until the markets return. {Exception: insect, disease and fire.}

Don't waste good timber.
 
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Fuels work

Do a billion dollars of that, mostly in the areas where logging is a minor portion of the fuels work, and succeed.

===========

Another reason for this thought.

The shovel ready projects are the ones that have gotten through the appeals process. That means lesser logging.

============

There are armies out there ready to fight anything from any viewpoint on National Forest land. Whatever you want, they don't.

If all of the below have not been completed:
1) Planning processes started; internal with external cooperating agencies providing significant input,
2) Public input sought and discussed,
3) Meetings in house with agendas fought over,
4) Commonly 3 or 5 alternatives proposed in an environmental analysis draft,
5) More input from everyone, Forest level and Regional level agency folks wading in shortly.
6) Ranger/Forest Supervisor select option 3 from the environmental analysis. (Whatever one is in the middle)
7) Everybody’s public relations campaign cranks up full throttle,
8) Congress is interested and making inquiries,
9) Option 2 is modified, (Whatever one is just to the left of middle),
10) Industry folks throw a spaz - Environmentalist state that its still not a good idea but they will allow it.............,
11) Modified option 2 is re-signed with appropriate publicity,
12) The most radical environmentalists appeal formally to the agency anyway - ignoring the other environmentalists,
13) That appeal doesn't get the entire thing shut down so these second layer environmentalists file in court,
14) Judge throws it out because of something like; a non scientific paper, by a concerned environmentalist, on fire retardant effects was in the addendum instead of the main environmental analysis.

The process can be dropped or started over.

============

Shovel ready is not an appropriate term for these projects in the Forest Service.
a) Shovels are not used,
b) Should read Paperwork ready.
 
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That was a nice rant

The problem with the above is that to do a good job of fuels treatment - forest health stuff - in many areas there is a need for small scale logging to start things on the ground.

Thinning from below, leaving the best trees, not particularly profitable for the mill owners.

But it is logging.

============

On a typical EA that I was familiar with back in my day (last year) there could be 1/2 the acres involved in logging to start with. At least 90% of those logging acres would be thinning from below. Then usually a non commercial thin then the slash would be cleaned up and maybe an underburn to finish everything real pretty.
 
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Hey I want to see a whole bunch of people put to work in the woods

Just be realistic.

Don't blame the average government employee if the amount of stuff that gets started this year is 1/3rd of what is being tossed around now.
 
Unfortunately, Smokechaser II is right on. Except thinning from below is profitable and the logs are a good size on this side of the mountains when the market is good. Paper ready is the right phrase.

We won't have any timber sales from the stimulus. I would expect the money goes to put out road decommissioning. That gets through the process easiest. This is too depressing for this morning. :(
 
SlowP versus Smokechase

SlowP is West side. Different ecosystem. Still employed.

I was East side. Much dryer, different fire risk and different timber.

I've never read anything SlowP posted that I could disagree with. I don't know SLP but I enjoy their humor when it can be drug out.

===============

"Except thinning from below is profitable and the logs are a good size on this side of the mountains when the market is good. Paper ready is the right phrase."

Size matters. Market matters. Paper ready is not something that we think about over here. All good points.

{You shouldn't have mentioned closing roads.}
 
I heard Stoltze Lumber here was talking about making a huge burner to power their mill (a way to reduce power consumption/overhead?)... So they could use a lot of scrub brush, limbs etc.

Paper mills are shutting down too, so I don't know if logging for that purpose is the answer either?

Only 3% of the "Stimulus Bill" (Spending "special interest" bill is more accurate) will be spent this year. Most of that 3% won't create any new jobs. I was watching the news, and an analyzer was saying, that to pay off our current debt--every working American would have to pay 95% taxes.

The system's broke, and Obama's sneaky segue into more Socialism isn't going to help.
 
The system may not be broke

"The system's broke, and Obama's sneaky segue into more Socialism isn't going to help."

=============

The system may not be broke but we're taking an 8 count.

A key point.

It wasn't socialism that did it.
We are borrowing from Social Security right now. Not just Saudi Arabia and China.
(If this had been a decade or two in the future - well maybe)

This spending is for an overly agressive capitalistic society that got caught.

==============

Back to the forests.

Sort of.

A local moulding and trim mill set up a pellet (wood stove) production capability to utilize their waste. Claim they saved ten jobs.

This is really the same thing as utilizing wood for power. Not bad!
 

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