dogdad
ArboristSite Operative
Anyone try or think about using a Stihl Cutoff saw with a diamond blade to cut tree roots in the ground? If it cuts concrete and stone ,,why not wood and dirt? Would it dull like a chain?
Using a CutOff saw??
- Thread starter dogdad
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Doesn't work.... Diamond only "cuts" hard stuff by "chipping" it away. In wood it just burns. I know, 'cos that's how I test concrete saws under load! I just run then into the test stump to load them up - lots of smoke, no "cut".
If you want to cut root, use a 5000psi pressure washer with lots of flow and a 0 degree nozzle - cuts roots like butter, and feet..
If you want to cut root, use a 5000psi pressure washer with lots of flow and a 0 degree nozzle - cuts roots like butter, and feet..
bugfart
ArboristSite Operative
What about a 12" circular saw blade?
sedanman
Just cut the piano!!
A circular saw blade on a cut-off saw is a recipe for disaster. Probably the worlds highest ptential for kich back.
kf_tree
Addicted to ArboristSite
sedanman said:
what do you think the FDNY use's for roof venting? i was demo..ing half a house once and a friend loaned me right out of the fire house a cut off saw with a circular carbide tipped blade. the thing was a beast for cutting the house in half the cutting it all up into sections to load into a compactor truck. but for roots as soon as you start hitting rock's and crap the blade would be done. a portable stump cutter is best for cutting roots.
sedanman
Just cut the piano!!
I have seen the roof venting set up on a cut off saw. It scares me to look at but remember the average firefighter is a big dude that's wearing a TON of PPE. At Stihl school we were told of a guy being decapitated by a carbide saw blade on a cut off saw, he was the operator.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I truely hope I insult someone here, but only a COMPLETE FOOL would use a circular saw blade in a cut-off saw.
Kick-back is immense, but more then that, if you use a carbide tipped blade the carbide tips shatter or come off the blade like shrapnel.
I won't even work on a saw if it come in the store with a wood blade (yes, we see them...). There have been some horrific injuries with guys doing this. Wish I had some videos to share...
I've never seen or heard of any FD using a cut-off saw - they use a chain saw with strengthened carbide chain (dual cutter sides) and cut depth limiting bars.
Kick-back is immense, but more then that, if you use a carbide tipped blade the carbide tips shatter or come off the blade like shrapnel.
I won't even work on a saw if it come in the store with a wood blade (yes, we see them...). There have been some horrific injuries with guys doing this. Wish I had some videos to share...
I've never seen or heard of any FD using a cut-off saw - they use a chain saw with strengthened carbide chain (dual cutter sides) and cut depth limiting bars.
kf_tree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Lakeside53 said:
how can you say kick back is immense, have you tried it? or are you just going by what you were told?
just because you never heard of any fire dept useing one does not mean i'm lieing? i know about 5 years ago partner saw's with circular blade's were standard issue for FDNY.
blades
Trained Fireman usind that setup would be quite different than joe consumer using it to cut off deckposts at head height. This is the guy that decapitated himself.
Now, would a manufacturer in hi right mind TELL anyone to do that?
Trained Fireman usind that setup would be quite different than joe consumer using it to cut off deckposts at head height. This is the guy that decapitated himself.
Now, would a manufacturer in hi right mind TELL anyone to do that?
kayakvt
ArboristSite Lurker
http://www.wfrfire.com/website/front/index.htm?/website/rescue/saws/warthog.htm&front
http://www.wfrfire.com/website/front/index.htm?/website/rescue/saws/warthog.htm&front
The D'Ax style ones are the most popular up here... Very common... In fact, up here, I'd say they're more common than a depth-limited chainsaw... I have seen both though...
I've used the D'Ax style ones in trainings and they are very smooth, not kicky... Also will cut in both directions, so when they start to dull or slow down, you just flip 'em over....
http://www.wfrfire.com/website/front/index.htm?/website/rescue/saws/warthog.htm&front
The D'Ax style ones are the most popular up here... Very common... In fact, up here, I'd say they're more common than a depth-limited chainsaw... I have seen both though...
I've used the D'Ax style ones in trainings and they are very smooth, not kicky... Also will cut in both directions, so when they start to dull or slow down, you just flip 'em over....
kf_tree
Addicted to ArboristSite
kayakvt said:
thanks for posting that, that was similar to the blade i used on the saw loaned to me. i was not reccomending it, but i did use one and commented that i found no more of an increase in kickback than when running a chainsaw.
sedanman
Just cut the piano!!
The guard on the wheel of many cut off saws can be rotated to expose either the bottom or the front of the wheel. A saw blade used where the bottom is exposed is not a deadly as one where the front of the blade is exposed.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
kf_tree said:
Don't be so sensitive.... No one is accusing you of lying. o.k., you could have easily interpreted my response as that, but that's the probem with writing.
No, I have not witnessed it first hand nor have I tried it... Just because I haven't witnessed the laws of physics I don't understand doesn't mean they won't apply. The "face open" kickback with cover lifted (cutting along the roof away from you) is one issue, the other is "pull in" - slow blade grabbing material or getting stuck.
Let me play Ben
and throw the the ball back in your court; are you sure they were issued with "circular saw" blades (which was the subject of my original comment) as commonly understood at the begining of this thread, or a specific "rescue or demolition blade", and, what do they use today? The FDs out here use a variety of chainsaws, mostly Stihl, with the Stihl special duro chain. New purchases are mostly the MS460 "rescue", but I did service a local FD 026 with carbide a few days ago.
kf_tree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Lakeside53 said:
you make a comment like this and then tell me don't be so sensitive.
Lakeside53 said:No, I have not witnessed it first hand nor have I tried it... Just because I haven't witnessed the laws of physics I don't understand doesn't mean they won't apply. The "face open" kickback with cover lifted (cutting along the roof away from you) is one issue, the other is "pull in" - slow blade grabbing material or getting stuck.
Let me play Ben
The FDs out here use a variety of chainsaws, mostly Stihl, with the Stihl special duro chain. New purchases are mostly the MS460 "rescue", but I did service a local FD 026 with carbide a few days ago.
who said anthing about the cover being lifted? not me. as far as were they issued with circular blades..........i think kayakvt's post basicly answered that question.
what is your knowledge about urban fire fighting equipment? have you trained as a fire fighter? why do you doubt what was issued 3000mi away.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
kf_tree said:
I didn't doubt your word. Yes, I could have been more specific that my knowledge was local. I service the local FD equipment.
My inflamatory comment was ONLY about using "circular saw blades", and I stand by that. And yes, it's already been answered that what you were using was not a "circular saw blade" as was being discussed.
If I may add a little here. The cutoff saw was used when there was nothing else. They would cut composite roofs when nothing else would. They were, and are, dangerous. There is no kickback feature to stop the blade in the event of a kickback. Kickbacks can occur because of contact with the wrong quadrant of the blade. They can also occur if the operator merely moved the saw to the side while in the cut. I have seen it happen with a fortunate end result. By the way, those D'ax blades will kick back too.
Chainsaw chains have made some considerable improvements in the last several years. For applications where the chainsaw works, it is the safer of the two to accomplish the task.
Chainsaw chains have made some considerable improvements in the last several years. For applications where the chainsaw works, it is the safer of the two to accomplish the task.
Diesel JD
ArboristSite Guru
There is just no telling what stupid thing a consumer will do with a cutting attachment. It's bad enough to cut overhead with a chainsaw...(I'll admit I have been guilty of this)but with a cutoff saw or a bow guide for that matter...this is where people die. I tend to agree with WRW, yes the cutoff saw may save lives in the hands of a trained firefighter...but in the hands of the average chainsaw user the risk/benefit ratio is just not worth it. How about a hardnose bar and carbide chain for that stumping?
bugfart
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks for the link to that blade.
Homelites MP-88 was the darling of the firefighters for a while.
While I choose not to insult, I will say that a 14" diamond tipped steel blade blasting into concrete gives me much more anxst than a 12" tapered tooth blade going through plywood.
To each his own, and that blade is probably the only thing other than composite that I would use now that I've seen it. Nice. I brought this up once before but I think it never got answered. I never saw it would be a better way of putting it. No need to put on a "go find it cruisade", it's all good.
I really didn't like the circular saw blade approach and it's nice to know what is available. Hey Lakeside, I don't know if I have seen a circular saw blade rated for 10K come to think of it. Although the manual states not to WOT until you are in the cut, (working speed 4800rpm on my XL98) the saw is 9K WOT while not in the cut.
Homelites MP-88 was the darling of the firefighters for a while.
While I choose not to insult, I will say that a 14" diamond tipped steel blade blasting into concrete gives me much more anxst than a 12" tapered tooth blade going through plywood.
To each his own, and that blade is probably the only thing other than composite that I would use now that I've seen it. Nice. I brought this up once before but I think it never got answered. I never saw it would be a better way of putting it. No need to put on a "go find it cruisade", it's all good.
I really didn't like the circular saw blade approach and it's nice to know what is available. Hey Lakeside, I don't know if I have seen a circular saw blade rated for 10K come to think of it. Although the manual states not to WOT until you are in the cut, (working speed 4800rpm on my XL98) the saw is 9K WOT while not in the cut.
application for a cut off saw
Reviving this thread to ask a question. I am involved in cleaning up rivers via canoe. It is amazing what people will throw into our bodies of water. The rivers are low right now which makes it a great time to remove the trash. My last canoe float had me go by 3 vehicles and a grain wagon. Could a cutoff saw like the TS400 cut up a vehicle into small enough pieces so they could be hauled out via a canoe or small john boat?
Brian
Reviving this thread to ask a question. I am involved in cleaning up rivers via canoe. It is amazing what people will throw into our bodies of water. The rivers are low right now which makes it a great time to remove the trash. My last canoe float had me go by 3 vehicles and a grain wagon. Could a cutoff saw like the TS400 cut up a vehicle into small enough pieces so they could be hauled out via a canoe or small john boat?
Brian
