Vibration Isolation - Which is best?

[sritzau]

For those of you who have used all of these saws, can you put them in order of the level of vibration felt by the user, worst first. I understand that "level of vibration" is pretty qualitative, but that is deliberate. I guess my loose definition is "which saw will leave you feeling numb the fastest for a given amount of cutting?"

In no order the saws are.

Husky 55
Husky 351
Shindaiwa 488
Stihl 026

Thanks in advance,

Steve

PS - Further fine print; I'm talking about off the shelf/out of the box and, where appropriate, with the same size bar.

 

[Walt Galer]

Howdy,

I would say that there is just too many variables to make any call. The measure of vibration at the handlebars is frought with problems. The numbers change completely according to how soft or firm of a hold you have on the handlebars as the data is taken.

The chain model and filing is more of a source of the vibration that the saw motor itself. How well this is absorbed in the saw is a function of the design. The two mass principle lightens up the saw motor, increasing the vibration resonance. The heavier (ie more inertia) of the remaining half of the system helps absorb it. You are robbing Peter to pay Paul! (And have a saw that likes to shed fastners because of the vibration accelleration).

There seems to be no good final answer. There is no shortage of claims however! No test data is worth the paper it is printed on, unless you are also given the test procedure complete. Then you have to study the variables, and what was done to control them.

Regards,
Walt Galer

 

[sritzau]

Walt,

I completely agree that my initial question was not posed well enough to be answered scientifically (or even close). I was hoping for opinions. I figured people would interpret the question in their own particular way and explain their rationale once they answered. I didn't want to rely on some published numbers for the reasons you sited.

I don't know, but I would imagine that the numbness is more affected by high-frequency vibration and I would guess that the high-frequency vibrations are less subject to the grip considerations.

Cluelessly,

Steve

 

[tony marks]

thats the one area that ive noticed a difference in poulan pro
craftsman etc. dam things vibrate worse than any i know.
i once had a pro 330 poulan and the saw would cut some wood . but your hands felt like,they been rolled over by a truck or somthin aftr i got finished.that thing was like holding on to a
some kinda wild somethin.
my stihl 028s are easy on the hands and the little echo feels good to.i still like my 36cc craftsman for quick jobs ,to big for the 3000.
my soninlaw quit using saws after he got carpeltunel.
then he found an olympic that was so smooth it putim back to cutting. just for deere stands and fire wood etc. later now

 

[Walt Galer]

Howdy,

Contrary to what seems obvious, it is the low frequency vibration, at and below 125 cycles that does the most LONGTERM damage to the circulatory system. (Trust me, I am an authority due to battling Raynod's syndrome myself courtesy of the super 797 McCulloch! Really bugs me for winter fishing). I did a bit of research on the subject and studied a lot of saw data. The antivibe systems really have a problem surpressing these low frequency vibrations. The higher frequency stuff is easily absorbed in rubber isolators. The extreem dificulty with these lower freqencies on large saws of low mass, is why Husky went to using the metal springs in their antivibe system. (as well as rubber as per normal).

With the larger saws, there is an increased tendency for the loggers to excessively lower their depthgauges, which is why the big problem.

Saws with larger amounts of travel within their isolators are better at surpressing low frequency vibration. Jonsered rather carried this to an extreem with some of their small to mid range models making them feel "mushy", but it works.

Regards,
Walt Galer

 

[FSburt]

vibration differance from some of the saws I have thinned with over ther past 14 years. 1988-92 Homelite 360 24" bar and 72 DG chain, Saw has some antivib bushings and did work your joints for the 1 st few weeks but I found it was caused from holding the saw in a deathgrip. Once I quit doing that I have been fine. 1992-2000 Huskvarna 268 24" bar and same chain, this saw was alot better on the hands than the homies and they had chain brakes. We would probably still be using homies except we needed a saw that a women could operate safely due to weight concerns. so it was a good thing we got some good saws out of the deal. 2000 to present Husky 372 wonderful saw on the body the vibration dampeners on these saws are a vast improvement over the 268's. Have been cutting burnt trees from a forest fire this last summer so it has been fun to get out and cut some wood in the dead of winter since the trees are dead and we don't have to worry about Ips getting into the slash and killling the green trees. Myself and 2 others clipped 3 acres in about 5 hours.
Hey Walt do you know where I can get some info with good pictures for my saw training class i instruct to my new cutters. I am in the process of finishing a Power point presentation on chainsaw operation and maintanence but need some cool pictures to help illustrate some key points. Walt do you consult with anybody from Forest Service on chainsaw matters just curious since you have indepth knowledge on sawing matters. Our chainsaw manual was just updated this year and it includes crosscut training now so in case we go to a fire on a forest that will not let us use our chainsaws to fall a snag we will use a crosscut saw and axe. I personally don't agree with this mentality of thinking due to the increased exposure time under a tree that is usually on fire and dropping embers out of it.

 

[Walt Galer]

Howdy FSBurt,

At one time, I collected a bunch of training manuals from around the world. One is a real collector's item, from South Africa: "Trainning manual for Black saw mechanics"!

One I might recommend is a major safety book with excellent illustrations, from the Worker's Compensation Board of British Columbia, Canada. There would likely be some material in there for you, and they generally will give permission if credit given, etc. This one is heavily slanted toward large diameter wood conditions, so you want to be a little selective as to exactly what you might want to use. "Faller's and Bucker's Handbook".

I have generally stayed away from the Forest Service; Too much political nonsense. As a rule, I find that they sure could use some help on chain maintainence. The conditions under which the saws are used on fire are really difficult, and safety problems quite severe, especially when comandeerd logger's are used for saw operators!

Regards,
Walt Galer

 

[Walkerized]

Hi from our experience the spring mounted saws are usually smoother. Husky has a great system by isolating the handles and tank from the power head. The Stihl has rubber mounts and sawdust tends to get stuck behind the mounts and making them stiffer. The husky spring mounts will not hold this sawdust and keep cleaner.
As no body has given you an order i will give you my preference
# 1 351 spring mounted
# 2 026-55 rubber mounted
# 3 488 rubber mounted ?

Thanks John W

 

[Walkerized]

I would also agree with walt on the chain maintenance. Proper filing and raker settings and we find full house chain and even safety chain is smoother.

John W

 

[sritzau]

Thanks to all for the input and the info.

 

[thacket]

Gloves for vibration

Greetings:

My SOLO has both springs and rubber mounts. Is there a recommended glove type when using a chainsaw that will help with vibration transmitted to the hands? Just curious. Thanks.

Best to All,
John

 

[FSburt]

Hey thacket I use those neoprene fishing gloves you can buy at walmart for 10 bucks or so. They work very well at absorbing the vibration from sawing. They don't last when you have to have to handle the chain during changes and after throws. good luck