View cuts.....

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beastmaster

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Being new to working in our local mountains I learned a new term; View cut. This is where rich people mutilate the forest near their weekend homes, so they can see nature. I know this is bread and butter for some companys and if they don't do it someone else will.
I have the displeasure of doing one right now. If it wasn't for the fact these poor oaks have been getting slammed for so long There isn't much more damage I can do to them I would refuse.(Im an employee)
My problem is the the new owners have got permission to view cut half the neighbors Oak. That is where I worked to day. I already know my work will not be approved. I have removed maybe 50 percent or more of green growth. You can see the lake just fine. This is in a window 3/4 up the tree maybe 8ft by 20 ft. That is as much Hippocratic give I have to offer on this view window. Their looking for 100%.
I am just an old tree trimmer, but I'm set in my ways. I am Pro tree. I am always being told,"no one cares, just cut",(paraphrasing)but I do care.
How do other companys handle these View cuts? I see pines cut in half and topped oaks all around this lake. I know 30 miles away in lake Arrowhead, They'll fine your ass for this. I feel like getting out of this business a lot lately. Beastmaster
 
Dont worry, it all grows back eventually.

Im going tomorrow to mendicino (CA coast) to do a bit of what you are doing.
I got hired by people who own vacation home on 5 ac.

Some of the tree's are close to the home and are hazardous, some I will just be removing branches.
Sounds like I'll be felling 10+ pines, wood will be used for stove.

You should get out, if you cant handle it, you sound to sensitive for tree work...just saying, not trying to be a jerk
 
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Your right I am probably to sensitive. After close to 30 years I see no changes in ethics, or pride in ones work. Profit rules and honesty be damned. I have no problem whipping someones ass,(I'm not that sensitive)but doing some thing I know is wrong, causes me guilt and shame. Maybe ignorance is bliss. If I didn't know any better is one thing, but with knowledge comes responsibility, I have a good moral compass, I don't steal, or cheat, if that is sensitive, then yeah I am, thank you. Beastmaster
 
View cuts

Vista, is what they called it in IL along the big lake. Hard to do , I have had to cut 78"tree that was on old sailling charts to help find Belmont harbor. never a good thing but if you don't some else will same for topping to have a Vista & or View what a Shame
 
yea we do this alot at LAKE ANNA in VA people want the best view,and they are rich rich rich basically i prefer not to butcher but in the end its what the ow2ner wants and what im getting paid to do...times are tough and i need the work so you wont hear me say "im not doing that cuz it wont be pretty"

atleat they arent going to die from the trimming
 
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Around here we call it vista pruning. It's topping. You may feel uncomfortable at first, kinda like giving a bad haircut but of the ones I've done, and some were really massacred at the owners request, they came back fine, shaped differently but healthy. If they do die, as mentioned, it's all atthe owners request so no fault of mine. And then I go in to take out the dead tree! :clap: Like you said, if you don't do it, someone else will. Where you're an employee, that means they'll maybe get rid of you for someone else that will just do what they're told. Kinda tough sometimes to hold onto what you believe in in comparison to getting paid. I'd start looking around quietly for a new job more toward doing what you like to do which seems to be pruning for the health of the tree.
 
That is a tough one, Beast. As an employee with your experience against your job requirements, you could easily let this get to you. Either do what you are paid for or hook up with a company that will pay you for what you do.
Jeff :cheers:
 
"Dont worry, it all grows back eventually."

Sometimes not at all.. Sometimes, very badly.

"You should get out, if you cant handle it, you sound to sensitive for tree work."

Sensitivity breeds expertise. beast's problem is working for underinformed bosses who do not know how to sell quality work.

i just looked at the attached metasequoia today--POA lady recommended removing the bottom half of branches so neighbor could get view. :msp_mad:

I prescribed <15% of the most-view-blocking branches off, repeat annually.

Guess which will be done? ;)

Guess who will do the work? :biggrin:

beast if you are ever asked to top a pine, see araucaria work below. works on white pine too.

“Not so fast, Mike.” Perry clamped his hand on my shoulder and rocked me back to earth. “How can that poor pine tree be sustainably shortened? Single-stemmed species do not have all those growing points to develop a lower crown. Look at 6.1.7: ‘Topping…shall be considered unacceptable’ How can a central leader be sustainably managed, if it is shortened for view?”
“Oh, I forgot that you were not on that job with the Pinus strobus at the hills back home.” I gently replied, reaching for a refill. “Pruning is not topping, if done to nodes and with regard to health and structure. The answer can be found in larger birds, my physique after a hearty meal, and my headgear” I exclaimed, letting my belt out a notch, donning my akubra hat with the bright green ribbon, and trimming its brim with a firm stroke of my thumb and forefinger.
PerryView attachment 204632View attachment 204633 pushed the cork deep into the bottle and shuffled off with it, muttering “That’s it. I’m going, to enjoy the one night I get to sleep in a bed.”
“Not at all, dear lad” Cal leaped up and started striding like a Western martial artist, the standard in one hand and skewer in the other. “You saw those excurrent Araucaria nearby going decurrent at maturity. Perhaps controlled pruning can even “veteranize” a pine by initiating that process before its time. 4.58: ‘Pruning to enhance a specific view without jeopardizing he health of the tree.’ By carefully shifting apical dominance with the smallest cut possible, the tree will spread more leaders in good health, like Michael here.“
I clasped my hands around my belly and smiled. This chap was a little rough around the edges, but he had potential.
“Big birds and hats—clues to cut the branches off the severed top of the tree, and weave them together in a sort of platform.” Cal continued, slashing his skewer like a sword and a needle, simultaneously slicing and sewing. “The shade and physical obstruction from this ‘cap’ will stop sunscald and sprouting. When the stem is reduced, the auxin hormones enforcing apical dominance will be produced at many reiterations. More growth points are supplied with water and nutrients from the stem tissues, resulting slower growth for each single leader.”
I finished writing as Cal thrust his skewer toward Perry so suddenly that he almost lost his grip on the bottle. “That’s it then, team!” I stood up. “Our client’s objectives are a view of the blue, habitat for birds, and standard arboricultural practice. Work that is done according to our specifications will accomplish those objectives, and earn us a month’s rent.”

Araucaria cunninghamii Pruning Objectives:
Health by reducing stem and advancing transition to decurrent form.
View improvement by opening sightline from cabin to lake
Increase habitat by creating a potential nest or perch for large birds
Pruning Methods and Specifications:
Reduce with one ~10 cm cut just above the 8th whorl (node) from the tip. Remove lateral branches from cut portion and weave them together above the stem, into the form of a nest. Ecourage occupation by avian associates, to inhibit cracking, decay and sprouting.
.
Over time, remove or reduce vigorous sprouts and let the outer branches reiterate new growth and droop downward under their own weight. Repeat this work every 3 – 5 years or as needed
 
I'm mostly venting, I'm not trying to be high and mighty or judgmental. I have a daughter in college and doctor bills etc., etc. I'll do those damned trees, that don't mean I have to like it, or except it as right. It also don't mean I have to try and justify it either.
I have intel the snow starts falling at this job. Mostly its a good job. Next year I'll be back up there as a contractor and I'll have more say and the ability to pick and chose. But cover it it with chocolate, sprinkle it with nuts, its still bad practice, and were just whore's to the rich. Beastmaster
 
vista pruning

I have learned to sell pruning "windows" in tree canopies. The client can have it's view of the ocean, lake, etc. while retaining the benefits of their trees. You can use a well placed window to "focus" what the viewer see's. I see this method as a win win. It's all about relief and contrast.
 
I have learned to sell pruning "windows" in tree canopies. The client can have it's view of the ocean, lake, etc. while retaining the benefits of their trees. You can use a well placed window to "focus" what the viewer see's. I see this method as a win win. It's all about relief and contrast.

You are on the east coast so, that explains it. You make up your own specs. Interesting, 'Windows, ? Really? I will bet you are not a cert arb. and if you are you will be able to show some pics of this. Windows?
Jeff:msp_smile:
 
I have learned to sell pruning "windows" in tree canopies. The client can have it's view of the ocean, lake, etc. while retaining the benefits of their trees. You can use a well placed window to "focus" what the viewer see's. I see this method as a win win. It's all about relief and contrast.

The voice of reason, I too feel with a little skill and fore sight a,"View window", can be opened up. The work I have already done on this tree, though pretty thin in the window I opened up is a realistic alternative to butchering and destroying the integrity of a majestic Oak tree. I paint and in a painting a limb hanging down in front of a view adds character and repose to a piece of art. A few limbs, even thinned out, in my eyes only enhances the view. The real art is in nature not on our walls.
The argument against this is people fell they'll have more maintenance to maintain the view. I wish they could of seen all the suckers I had to cut off of old end cuts that were headed off to get their view back.
Lack of skill often creates a practice, and becomes the norm, when the Majority lack the skill or vision to do it right.
Unfortunately that is my view not my bosses. Beastmaster
 
Yeah, it does get to me when I have done this work. I had one client where we maintained a view to the Potomac River. After working on this view for 15 years, we have not lost one tree. Correct crown reduction can be done without harming the health of the trees. As a side note, these trees were on National Park property so we had lots of eyes on us while the work was being performed.
 
You are on the east coast so, that explains it. You make up your own specs. Interesting, 'Windows, ? Really? I will bet you are not a cert arb. and if you are you will be able to show some pics of this. Windows?
Jeff:msp_smile:

Actually, Jeff, "windowing" is also a california term. I first heard it from dennis yniguez 15 yrs ago.

Where you been? Windowing can be done on any coast.
 
When I do vista work I'm always looking for that "window" rather that the clear-cut and run. Remove the visable junk right off the bat, remove branches here and there, remove trees which will become problematic over time, and encourate the smaller material to create the base and prevent erosion. To me, clearing out everything and topping looks like hell.
 
I make people know ahead of time of the massive sucker growth they are in for. Some don't care and just call me back every freaking year to skin them back. Some people say "Oh my, I don't want to look at shoots", and you can sell them on something else. But a million dollar view has more muscle.
 
It's called vista pruning here also. We don't do much of it, maybe a few branches here & there, but no huge "windows". Our certified arborist has taught me a lot and topping is one of the things I've learned not to do. He and I are the only two that bid jobs so there's no misunderstanding when I give him a work order, he'll never look at it and say "WTF - you want me to do what?!" I know work is work, but sometimes ethics are ethics. We aren't a multi-million dollar company, but focus on good quality work and it sustains us well & we continue to grow. We hate to lose jobs, but there are those jobs that you've just gotta walk away from. As an employee of a company that bids on those jobs, you are in different shoes than we are. We practice proper pruning techniques, and those improper pruning estimates we run, usually topping jobs, we could care less about losing and try to talk the customer into properly pruning (if needed) or removing & replanting w/ another tree that better fits the space allocated.
 
Tough to pay the mortgage with ethics.

Work is work and if the client is paying, he's going to pay you to do it or someone else. And if ethics are getting in the way, you'll be staying home for the day. I mentioned this scenario to a guy i work with and he just laughed.
 
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