VT hitch

[kennertree]

Just wondering if anyone could tell me which one is tied correctly or if they are both tied wrong. I tried the VT years ago and forgot how to tie it. I've looked it up and can't seem to find out much on the proper way to tie it. Thanks in advance.

 

[kennertree]

When the top wrap comes back down, does it go over or under the other side?

 

[kennertree]

Thanks Dan. I just wanted to make sure I had it tied right before I went and tried it out. Now I know I am tying correctly I will add a pulley and try it out again.

 

[kennertree]

I tied it a few times and did a pull test. I had it tied with a 4/2 and then a 3/2. The 4/2 seemed like it gripped too much but I won't know till I try it out.

 

[Daddy M Dawg]

Was there a difference in the 2 knots besides the angle? The look exactly the same.

 

[Daddy M Dawg]

Ahhhh I see it. It took quite a lot of toggling windows to find it.

 

[pdqdl]

It looks like pic one is (cross-overs going down from the top) over, then over again. The second pic appears to be under, then over.

As I recall my knot history, the original Valdetain was a simple 7 wraps going up, and worked in either direction of pull, much like a prussic.

The commonly used VT is tied with 4 wraps going up, then two crossovers coming down. Usually with the upper leg crossing over the top of the lower leg first, then reversing roles by going under the lower leg on the last crossover. In this fashion, each of the two legs is held down by the other while still in the lower regions of the knot.

Unless I am mistaken, that would be picture #3, which you don't seem to have posted.

Your pic #2 looks like it might hold a little tighter than pic #1.

 

[M.Green - SVTS]

I honestly can't tell without seeing the back side of the bottom.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

It helps to look at them side by side, hope the dialupers do not get too upset.

Your pic #2 looks like it might hold a little tighter than pic #1.

I find that it is less likely to "drop" a wrap when the top is trapped by the bottom.

In my experiance the wraps will make most of the friction, where the braids allow you to fine tune the hitch for the application. I will go with 3:3 most of the time, but will drop to 3:2 when a more dynamic hitch. Sometimes i will go with 3:3.5 when i am on spikes and not worried about a lock up, and do not want any creep in the hitch.

The only time I have had to go with 4 wraps is when using 2 new lines together, there was so little friction between the 2 new covers that I needed to have a lot of surface to break them in.

On some ropes with smother covers I will twist the first braid so that it traps the the top wrap even better.

BTW, i hate splices for this because the ends are too stiff to get the hitch as short as possible. Along with the ridiculous retail price for a wear item.

 

[Blakesmaster]

BTW, i hate splices for this because the ends are too stiff to get the hitch as short as possible. Along with the ridiculous retail price for a wear item.

Do just use a double fisherman's tied to the beaner on either side of the climb line then? I considered that option while setting up mine but was worried it would be too bulky, plus the extra setup time. I assume you have a splice on the end of your climb line at least, right? I don't, so I'd be looking at 3 double fisherman's on the same beaner.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Do just use a double fisherman's tied to the beaner on either side of the climb line then?

I have a fishermans on each end of the tress cord, but I use a Fixe pulley and tie one end of to the beckett. Using a 3/8 in stable braid it is not bulky and costs only a few bucks a cord. For what people pay for the high-tech fiber stuff I can afford a long hank of stable braid.

I considered that option while setting up mine but was worried it would be too bulky, plus the extra setup time.

There is a little setup time, but I am not retieing it every day. I just check it several times a day (especially after this past spring )

I assume you have a splice on the end of your climb line at least, right? I don't, so I'd be looking at 3 double fisherman's on the same beaner.

I got my spliced climb line caught in one too many tight crotches and quit buying them. Besides, with how often I nick and shorten my lines it is not worth the extra $20 for the splice.

Are you on a floating bridge that you are trying to cram everything on one carabiner? I hate that set-up even more then the floating bridge. I'm on my third Master saddle, and tie into the top stitched loops.

 

[Blakesmaster]

I have a fishermans on each end of the tress cord, but I use a Fixe pulley and tie one end of to the beckett. Using a 3/8 in stable braid it is not bulky and costs only a few bucks a cord. For what people pay for the high-tech fiber stuff I can afford a long hank of stable braid.




There is a little setup time, but I am not retieing it every day. I just check it several times a day (especially after this past spring )



I got my spliced climb line caught in one too many tight crotches and quit buying them. Besides, with how often I nick and shorten my lines it is not worth the extra $20 for the splice.

Are you on a floating bridge that you are trying to cram everything on one carabiner? I hate that set-up even more then the floating bridge. I'm on my third Master saddle, and tie into the top stitched loops.

Ha ha. I had to google half the words you used up there, JPS, but I got a decent image of what your set up is. Thanks. As far as my saddle, I'm still in my super old school one with 2 d rings on my butt strap. I suppose I could just add another biner to avoid cramming the works onto one. Or I could just go buy a new saddle. I just wanted a little more info on what you use. Thank you for that.

 

[masiman]

I have a fishermans on each end of the tress cord, but I use a Fixe pulley and tie one end of to the beckett. Using a 3/8 in stable braid it is not bulky and costs only a few bucks a cord. For what people pay for the high-tech fiber stuff I can afford a long hank of stable braid.


There is a little setup time, but I am not retieing it every day. I just check it several times a day (especially after this past spring )

JPS, I get what you are doing with the fixe but I am not sure what the beckett is in this case, one side of the fixe? Pic?

What happened last spring?

 

[LTREES]

Jps

There is a little setup time, but I am not retieing it every day. I just check it several times a day (especially after this past spring )

Do you leave it on the krab and the line all the time? Do you take it off to wrap your rope up?:monkey:

LT...

 

[Bermie]

Do you leave it on the krab and the line all the time? Do you take it off to wrap your rope up?:monkey:

LT...

I use a VT with a hitchclimber pulley. Mine is left on the line and krabs at the end of the day, then untied and inspected once a week or two depending on use and conditions. Visual inspection at the start of every job though. Just threw my icetail cord in the wash the other day as it had got a lot of gunk in the fibres, dust and sap and oil...good to go now.

 

[LTREES]

I use a VT with a hitchclimber pulley. Mine is left on the line and krabs at the end of the day, then untied and inspected once a week or two depending on use and conditions. Visual inspection at the start of every job though. Just threw my icetail cord in the wash the other day as it had got a lot of gunk in the fibres, dust and sap and oil...good to go now.

So when you descend at the end of the prune you have to push the VT all the way up to the EYE end of the rope? How many guys do that? Take the cord off once a week and wash it, that will rejuvenate it to a longer life? Any thing else I should know about the VT?

LT...

 

[pdqdl]

I guess it would all depend on how skilled you are at tying it on, and how long it takes you to pull back up the rope.

Don't forget; you'll have to pull it back down for the next tree. It might be a better strategy to pull it down to the opposite end of the rope from the eye. At least then you wouldn't need to guess how much rope to pull through for the next tree. But if you are feeding the rope out from a rope bag, that will make a big mess...

You might just decide to leave it where it's at, hoping the next tree is the same size.

My thoughts: it really isn't hard to tie. I have more trouble clipping the carabiners in place through the micro-pulley than doing the tie.

 

[Bermie]

So when you descend at the end of the prune you have to push the VT all the way up to the EYE end of the rope? How many guys do that? Take the cord off once a week and wash it, that will rejuvenate it to a longer life? Any thing else I should know about the VT?

LT...

Huh???

I descend at the end of the day, unclip the fishermans knot from the end of my climbing rope on the top krab, pull it out of the tree, unclip the bottom krab from my harness and leave the whole lot where it is, attached to my climbing rope, stuff everything back in the bag and 'go 'long home'...
I only adjust where the setup is if I've come a long way down, otherwise just adjust it the next day as the rope goes up the tree.
The cord only gets washed when it needs it, what, once every couple months?

 

[pdqdl]

I see that you took the "leave it where it's at" approach.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Do you leave it on the krab and the line all the time? Do you take it off to wrap your rope up?

I leave the tress cord on the Fixe and carabiner all the time, I retie the fishermen only when they creep enough to warrent the time. Quite often I am replacing the cord before that happens.

I climb on several different lines, so I never leave a the VT tied onto the climb line.

The beckett is the "back side" of the fixed pulley, or the bottom in this picture.