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Wanted: 440/460, 044/046

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singletrack100

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
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Location
Springerville, AZ
Looking for a decent, preferably not modded Stihl 044/440 or 046/460 for use as a wildland saw for my fire department. We have a couple 362's which match the experience level of our personnel but we have upcoming B-faller trainees, and myself, who need something more capable. I have nothing against Husky or the others but am adamant about being a Stihl, only because I have seen better field support on fires for Stihl's.

Pretty isn't so much a consideration as reliability and I trust the gang here rather than E-Bay. The few I have seen many pages into the trading post here are out of our price range (and ported). Would love them for myself but I'm on a tight budget to outfit a wildland division here (I hired on late June).

I am off-shift tomorrow and taking wife in for surgery so I will be sporadic in getting online but I will get back with people who reply or PM.

Thanks all!

Duane
 
I just took called 1 course and they supplied all the equipment for the course! As a matter a fact they actually asked us not to bring any saws . PS please let me know how hard faller 2 course is if you will.
Good luck
Chris
 
Chris, I just typed out a whole response for you on my phone here while waiting while my wife is in surgery. Stupid me- I hut a wrong button and lost it! I'll be online on a real PC either later this evening (I'm on the West Side) or tomorrow sometime and get back to you.
Duane
 
I hope your wife's status is good.

I'm not sure your budget, or your local gov't status... but even a rural volunteerror FD should qualify for Stihl's 20% gov't discount.

Speculation here... I know startups of any nature require capitol, but if you're being asked to start a wildland division and respond and especially pickup contracts (for a small rural FD, it's my understanding that this is usually how you sustain the program) where B sawyers are requiredoing and the budget isn't there to buy a saw, then I'd guess you've got bigger fish to fry.
Have you contacted area FD that have an established program (and the budget to buy new equipment) to hook you up with a bigger saw? I know the rural FD's here in western MT get a variety of gear/equip handed down.

If you're a municipal FD, then I'd go back to them and ask for a budget to build a program adequate to meet the level of response they wish to achieve.
 
Duane,

I, too, hope your wife's health improves.

Be careful what you wish for...I think the 361 with a 20" bar is a better wildland saw, for Faller T2s, than the 440.

What's the problem with your 362s? Are your guys not able to efficiently get 24" trees down with them? Keep in mind, that's the Faller T2 limit. I find wildland cutting is mostly brush-to-16"DBH...and, within that, it is mostly brush.

Roy
 
Thank you all for your wishes regarding my wife. Yes, she is fine, home late last night- female bleeding issue/surgery.

As for the saw and our situation this will help clear up questions: I've been doing wildland since 1988. I'm engine boss qual's, a strike team leader- engine trainee and B faller (FALB) qual'd. I'm gathering by some of the posts you all may know or refer to this as faller 2, with the 24" restriction (uncompromised). In the actual fire world, I've seen variances in the field on this, to include this past season- max diameter is what you can cut while only cutting from one side. My USFS card actually says "above 24" use best judgement".

I came to my current department, a small paid department (district) in late June of last year. One of the pluses I had was my qual's and experience. This department until then had not been "in the game" regarding wildfires, except typical on district stuff. I came on board as the "Wildland Coordinator" to help build a "Wildland Division" if you will. Coming on board in the middle of the season, and just as a 7000 acre fire had started right off district, it was baptism by fire (excuse the pun) for the Chief and everybody. The Chief and others learned a lot by being able to have apparatus on the fire because of having a qual'd engine boss. I ended up out two more times to CA, once as a strike team leader trainee to the Sierra NF during the French Fire, and again with our Type 3 engine to Southern CA (Temecula/Oak Grove area) prepositioned, then ordered up north to the King Fire.

I had to use what we had on hand then, including scraping other departments for qual'd people to take on the road. Our budget is July 01- June 30 and I have $3200 allocated specifically to Wildland. I am preparing budget figures for next year's budget for bothWildland and Training as I am also our Training Officer. There are huge needs in both which I hope to fund better than they have been. Part of the limited funding has been a lack of awareness of requirements and what is available or possible. They realized this past season that a Wildland Division can bring in revenue (truck wages) and self-support if done right.

The current personnel we have: few (having fingers left on one hand when counting) have had S-212 Wildland Power Saws class, the start for FALA (faller 1?), and only one have a FALA taskbook open. For these individuals, the 362's are appropriate, and ours have 20" B/C. For me as a FALB, not so much. Hence the shopping for said 440/460 044/046, ending with 25" B/C. This would satisfy myself as a FALB and those others as they work up.

With the above stated, I am trying to keep my purchase of one saw to improve our standing at $500, leaving me $2700 to obtain PPE, hose, appliances, hand tools, etc.. We have some of thise, and I understand there are many avenues such as grants, other departments and such. Our neighboring "big city" department was supposed to "yard sale" much stuff at pennies on the dollar last October, however that has not happened yet, and I cannot wait for an undisclosed date. I need to act now for this season to get us better prepared, even in a small way. There will be more saws than this one in the future but for now...

So that's where we're at and where the search for a dependable (pretty doesn't cut wood) saw comes from. I am shying away from modified/ported due to the inexperience of our users. I don't need a saw to come back burned up due to lack of knowing how to tune at different elevation. A FALA, or faller 1? with a stock saw should not run into this problem. And my 066 can stay home where it belongs (and I can use something lighter on the line).

Sorry so long gang but hope that helps!

Duane
 
Roy, (IR Hunter), you're absolutely right regarding the 362's and their capabilities. My experience as a FALB has been lot's and lot's of falling in the 16-30" range (live, dead, fire compromised, on fire, etc) and a LOT of bucking "heavies" (fallen burning trees and logs). Hence why I'm looking for the larger saw. Our 362's are perfect for our existing personnel; I'm looking to their future growth!

On a side note, when I took or Type 3 engine to CA (King Fire) I wish I had not taken the 362 off and left it with the station. We brushed and brushed along roads, and anyone who has brushed chapparal and pine <6" with an 066 and 28" B/C knows it blows! It (066) went as I think "falling", "bucking heavies",,, and not so much "brushing". It hasn't been very often where us engine crews get assembled into hand crews to brush... Wished I'd had one of those 362's on board! Lol!

Duane
 
How's the misses today? Hopefully well.
I'm only a faller 1 but it I took the course at the he end of October. Its a 5 day 40 hr , classroom and hands on course. I had fun doing meeting a bunch of the guys and a few new techniques. At the end of the class a few of the instructor s said they would run saw around me anytime . before I left the class I broke out my masterminded 562 at . everyone there ran it like a gtg thing but not loved it . they talked of possibly buying worked saws to try out.
As far as the size you cut I live in Pa . larger hard woods a very normal here. Hence larger saws our district forester carries a ms 660 w 36 b/c all the time.
Does your state help out with equipment? Here they do . we own a lot but they help with bigger things .
Chris
 
I wish I had not taken the 362 off and left it with the station. We brushed and brushed along roads, and anyone who has brushed chapparal and pine <6" with an 066 and 28" B/C knows it blows!
Duane

True. Also, lugging a lot of saw over hill and dale, to eventually use it like a weedwhacker especially blows. I understand liking the notion of a 044 on an engine. But, my personal reality suggests the 361 is a great all-round wildfire saw.

It is not too uncommon to run into engine folks well away from their machines doing hand crew work. They sometimes look pretty unhappy out there. Too small packs (i.e., not enough drinking water) and too large saws often contribute to any unhappiness. That is not to say, I never work with engine folks out in the willywaggs who are out there having a great time.

Roy
 
Back again checking. Yes, my wife is fine. Just now "connected" to the world and foggy head gone. She's up and doing things. Yes, Stihl for the support if and when it is available on the fires out here. The seasons I worked USFS they had both Stihl and Huskies in the saw sheds in equal amounts, and used both for project work equally, but the engines and Hot Shot buggies were only equipped with Stihl's on them.

Roy, I'm chuckling as I read your response. I've seen those guys you speak of! I've outfitted my crews in the past decent enough,,, probaby heavier than regular engine guys, but those who have gone out with me have seen the need for things like 6-8 quarts water (when groundpounding), wedges (if sawing), a space blanket, an emergency pancho, extra batteries, flagging tape, flat files, etc... yah, most engine guys from departments are often ill equipped to travel more than 100 yards from their ride, haha!

Anyway, the proverbial 044/046 440/460 seems to be the most commonly equipped and used saw out here that I've seen in the hands of the hand crews (both federal and Type II) and the federal engine crews... seems to be the most supported at the support vendors too when they are around, hence the preference. Nothing against the 362...

Out again for more chores and honey-dos as my wife recovers! Back again later!

Duane
 
I can't get the pics up (hate it when I can't get it up- haha)... Only interested in a CL if someone here vouches for it, know what I mean? Same as Ebay....

Duane
 

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