What does it take to make a good hot saw operator??

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Hey guys. Just thinking too much about my crappy ability in this event and I really want to improve. I've given it some thought and I've come to the following analysis.

First, engine asside, we're just talking about running the engine. What are the points to concentrate on to make oneself a better operator in a race with a cold start.

As I see it, there's several steps to a race. It would go in this order 1. Start 2. Line up to first cut; 3. First cut; 4.Switch over; 5. Second up cut; 6. Switch over; 7. Third down cut. I know we could add more numbers for such things as warm up and set up, but that's more to do with the engine. I'm talking about the event once your hands touch the wood.

I'll probably write more later as I have to get some work done, but I'll start and state what I see are the important points to remember in doing a hot saw cold start.
1) Never take your eyes off the pull cord.
2) Keep both entire hands flat on the wood (that killed me at the Sthil Finals).
3) body weight evenly on heels and centered over the saw - knees bent to get body closer to the saw.
4) Don't be afraid to get really close to the saw.
5) Make your lift with the left hand on the handle simultaneous with the pull on the cord.
6) get your hand to the throttle as quickly as you can without sacrificing your pull.

Other thoughts? I'll comment on the other stages set forth above later as I'm kinda busy today.

All the best,
Arden Cogar Jr. aka Jamie

 

[dneiger]

Operator

Arden,
I was never very fast getting to the wood so I had to concentrate on what I was doing after I got there, one thing I found was that I could do much better in lining up my cuts if I started the saw on the ground. With saws being quite heavy and a lot of compression you always take a chance of a mispull when you try to fly start them. The first cut is the key to getting a good run if you get that one placed right the others will fall into place.
Dave

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Arden,
I was never very fast getting to the wood so I had to concentrate on what I was doing after I got there, one thing I found was that I could do much better in lining up my cuts if I started the saw on the ground. With saws being quite heavy and a lot of compression you always take a chance of a mispull when you try to fly start them. The first cut is the key to getting a good run if you get that one placed right the others will fall into place.
Dave

Dave,
Excellent point. That is something I must try to see how it goes for me. The Rotax's have compression releases on the piston and they normally turn over fairly easily - well, at least mine does. I'm going to give this some more thought. It's too cold to run the engine right now, but I can at least think about it.

All the best,
Jamie

 

[ehp]

Jamie this is about running your rotax correct , cause to me a rotax compared to a chainsaw is 2 totally different things and the rotax being the harder by far.
First thing I know I need to do is move the front handle in closer towards the back handle, reason, I am not that tall and with the handles so far apart it is harder to cold start plus I find it harder to keep the saw straight to do the cuts with , I seem to have it on a tilt so the handle was moved and it is alot better, now when cold starting the front handle is not almost behind me.
everybody has there way of running a saw , you do what ever works best for you,
for myself I find I donot bend over to cold start a rotax because I want my arms pretty much straight when I have my hands on the pull cord and back handle , now I donot think about it but I am sure I do it, as soon as I start to pull the cord I push my other hand down my make sure the saw does not move on me and I get the motor spinning as fast as I can. But like I said you know what you are doing and if your motor runs the same everytime you will get so you are not second guessing yourself and you will be a force to deal with, you have the power and the speed , the rest will come .
I know the first time I ever ran a rotax was at Eagle River, I had no idea on what was going to happen once that cord was pulled, the down cuts didnot bother me it was the up cut, not knowing if it was going to push me out of the cut or what.
well the race was over once they said go, I got it started but on that plywood deck the saw turned alittle towards the block and I just touched the end of the block on the way up to make my first cut, not sure why the chain didnot come off right then. got my first cut off and Bill said I was at least 1 to 1.5 seconds on the switch over before I even started my second cut, I had my feet pretty much set as hard as I could waiting for this big push back on the up cut, it never came so for my first run , I got 3 cookies in the 6 inches off , no cuts , no broken parts , a slow time but it was fun and I made money for that very poor run , what else could a man ask for

 

[ozflea]

Hmm gunna watch this topic might learn something, might save the saw from wearing out through practise, and we could have a list of directions posted on a sign in front of the competitors and deduct points from those who don't saw by the rules.

Although when after planning and tons of practice old murphy might just happen to enter the scene and all falls to xxxx just as you hit the log been there done that.

Have fun stir them and then flogg them ( out phyic them mess with their minds anything to win ) just don't get a headache at the wrong time.

Bob.

 

[Crofter]

Make sure when you pull the choke to set the high idle, that you remember to push it back in. Is there any tricks to keep from having a cookie knock your chain off. I have hit them and sent them flying but lucky to not derail or break a chain.

 

[ccicora]

Jamie, this is a very dangerous topic.... My old 3120 has an 029 Super sticker on it. Funny thing is first show after I put it on I placed top 5. Go Figure?
My question to you is how many cold starts do you practice? As the season gets closer I practice almost every night. Set the saw up the same way everytime. Make everything a habit by nature. As I think Chopwood will tell you I got alot better at starting this year. Oh and the saw helped out too.
But really even if you had to make a dummy saw and weight it, just so you can practice as much as you can.
Oh and I was told to watch all the guys who are faster than me. They make less mistakes.

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Chris and Ed,
Excellent advice. Dennis Daun told me that one of the best things I could do to practice starts is to set up an 8x8 or 8 to 10" round and make two cuts and set up for the third. The idea behind using this small wood was to get a quick start. He said to start by making three or four 1st cuts from a cold start. And as Chris said do the same thing over and over. Make it a routine. That's what I'll do. I'll make my practice runs just like my show runs right down to the idiotic (kinda like watching a baseball player and their rituals before they get back in the batters box). Excellent points.

Now, I'm going to write about lining up the first cut. As of now, here's my opinion as to the important points to remember:

1) Left Hand must be centered on the handle so the saw is evenly weighted and level.
2) Back hand does nothing other than pull the throttle and the applys weight to level out the saw.
3) Tip the nose of the bar down slightly (different schools of thought on this - getting the motor over the chain is suppossed to allow for more RPM's or something - I'll let the techy's explain that one to me).
4) Don't slam the saw in the wood - guide it in. 1/2" chain is hard to find.

Anymore thoughts. I hope Tommy or Dennis reads this as they're awesome operators of those saws.

All the best,
Jamie

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Make sure when you pull the choke to set the high idle, that you remember to push it back in. Is there any tricks to keep from having a cookie knock your chain off. I have hit them and sent them flying but lucky to not derail or break a chain.

Crofter,
Good question on the cookie/chain thingy. To be honest, I'm guessing the best thing to do is turn your saw toward the dummy after your cuts - note, you can't do this when you're in jeopardy of hitting the dummy. I've always done this with my big motors. Smaller Motors, I'm not sure.

All the best,
Jamie

 

[Chopwood]

Jaimie-
Practice-Practice-Practice, need I explain my opinion. Now in regards to my Rotax- I start it on the ground, it only takes about five inches of rope to get it to fire. If you look at the best (IMHO) Jim Taylor, Bolstad, Sullivan, Wynyard, Rick H. (sorry to those offended if I left you out). Each one starts the saw differently, even though they all get to the wood in roughly the same time. In closing- Practice your ass off on everything regarding the saws. I made myself pretty formidable with a 10 year old gas 3120 (that I could never run at Webster, by the way) travelling around the NE and Canada by being able to start and make changes faster than nearly anyone else. I had to, they all had more power than me. And I won a lot of races- Fryeburg ME included. Anyway, that is my plan with my newest toy- the Rotax, practice until my shoulders hurt from pulling the rope.

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Jaimie-
Practice-Practice-Practice, need I explain my opinion. Now in regards to my Rotax- I start it on the ground, it only takes about five inches of rope to get it to fire. If you look at the best (IMHO) Jim Taylor, Bolstad, Sullivan, Wynyard, Rick H. (sorry to those offended if I left you out). Each one starts the saw differently, even though they all get to the wood in roughly the same time. In closing- Practice your ass off on everything regarding the saws. I made myself pretty formidable with a 10 year old gas 3120 (that I could never run at Webster, by the way) travelling around the NE and Canada by being able to start and make changes faster than nearly anyone else. I had to, they all had more power than me. And I won a lot of races- Fryeburg ME included. Anyway, that is my plan with my newest toy- the Rotax, practice until my shoulders hurt from pulling the rope.

All good points Andy.....be careful not to wear that new toy out...that's what I've always been afraid of. I would bet that my saw has logged less cuts than any Rotax that's more than five years old. Last year, I made the most practice cuts I've ever made (and I keep a log of what I'm cutting, how I'm cutting and the time) and that was only 15 runs complete. I had the trouble with the fuel pump/needle valve that required EHP's expert advice (thanks again ED). I probably made a dozen more "almost" runs that quit because the saw ran out of gas.....prior to that, I never trained with it. And you know what's absolutely shocking..... my best times with that saw came when I never trained with it. My best cut at Hayward was four years ago. I cut a 7.2 and got seventh place. My best cut at Boonville was three years ago; I cut a 7.9 and I ended up 6th. My best cut on the Sthil Series was two years ao; I cut a 7.29 and ended up 11th.

I know the motor is better now since I added the rubber boat/lectron carb/new pipe and a 13 tooth sprocket. Since it doesn't have many hours on it, I'll make more practice runs this year. I'm gonna have to if I plan on doing anything in the Timbersports Series. Should be fun.

Ya know, I could cut 20 singles and 7 or 8 standings in the time it takes me to set up and make three cuts in a Hot Saw. OH I remember the days of cutting 12 blocks a night and sawing til my hands went numb. When Kristy's in the mood, we still do that sawing. We've been match racing this spring - I cut a 14" sycamore with a dull 503 and she uses a 6'3" tui m-tooth on a 17" white pine. Assuming I don't hang and nearly cut off my arm, the logs normally take me 34 to 37 strokes. Kristy with an M is torture and I'm amazed she can push it......anyway, I must digress. I suck at hot saw but someday I'll be mediocre. At least that's my goal....aim low and you don't get disappointed.

All the best,
Jamie

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

:Eye: :blob5: Well the hot saw training will begin this weekend. We finally have a good bit of weather to look forward to on Saturday and Sunday and I'm going to make a couple practice cuts. FYI (For Y'alls information), I have never made a practice cut before July. I hope this will lead to improved performances....ya never know.

All the best,
Jamie

 

[ccicora]

Good luck, I would but my stand is only about 10" off the snow. Preaty low stand right now.

 

[Chopwood]

Good luck, I would but my stand is only about 10" off the snow. Preaty low stand right now.

I think my stand is AT LEAST 10" under the snow (lake effect, you know!)

 

[ccicora]

We are preaty low on snow usally I can't see the axe throw target. And I've asked stihltech to come up and he keeps turning down the offer.

 

[stihltech]

hey

I can hit the ground just fine when the target is off the ground. You need some more ground plowed in front of it?
Maybe when I get this job less than 11 1/2 hours a day, I will be over.
Besides, I think you time will be filled shortly, Dad.

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

We are preaty low on snow usally I can't see the axe throw target. And I've asked stihltech to come up and he keeps turning down the offer.

Ya know, I once tried to stock saw in my indoor area.....mistake. My eyes were watering after the second cut. I have an old two story six room house that Kristy and I have converted into a "chopping house." One room for standing block. One room for grinding. One room for sawing (two stands for match racing). And two rooms (had to cut out the floor of the upstairs) for underhands. It's got lights and it's remotely heated. However, chainsaws are a little hard. With that said, it was 60 degrees today. I looked at the hot saw and cut about 15 hardwood logs and made about 5 singles. I'm freakin sore. I'll get the hot saw out tomorrow. I know . . . . . I'm a slacker.

all the best,
Jamie

 

[ccicora]

Well here you go guys a few pic's of what my life has been like lately. The first two explains there selves. The last is for Jamie and his 60 degree weather. Come on up a couple of weeks here and you will be in shorts back home.

 

[stihltech]

dad

You know you are going to be a dad when you credit card has more items to Baby's Are Us than hot saw parts deals. That or a Grandpa.
Tell Gretchen to take it easy.
I will start looking for extra small hearing protectors.

 

[ccicora]

Yes, we've been talking about picking up some Peltor Magnum muffs for the baby. Can't have the baby go deaf as we run the saws.

I is a edumakated red-neck.... :Monkey: