What kind of bug trouble is this?

[Joseph Acquisto]

I felled some white pine last summer and stacked it while I procrastinated setting up saw mill. Still not set up.

But I noticed a lot of "sawdust" on the logs. I did not think much of it as I had been trying some chainsaw milling and thought it was just the chips from that mistake. But today, moving some stuff around, could see there was "a lot" of it and not in places the chainsaw chips would have gotten.

When a couple of dry days are predicted I will spray with a borax solution and hope for the best.

What do you think did this? Are the logs a lost cause? Is the borax/boric acid/glycol solution likely to stop them?

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

If you're talking abouf the chainsaw chips those are chainsaw chips. Blew in to there or whatever. Bugs only make fine dust.

 

[Del_]

Might be:


https://entomologytoday.org/2020/10/15/fast-frassy-way-detect-asian-longhorned-beetle/

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

If you're talking abouf the chainsaw chips those are chainsaw chips. Blew in to there or whatever. Bugs only make fine dust.

The thought it was chain saw chip fooled me for a while, but when I looked close these are a lot more like real thin tooth picks than anything else, to my eye.

And on the other side of the log pile they are there also.

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

Might be:


https://entomologytoday.org/2020/10/15/fast-frassy-way-detect-asian-longhorned-beetle/

Looks similar, but did not see white pine listed as a host. Have not noticed that bug though. I'll keep researching.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Remove the bark, you will see much better then the holes the bark beetle makes, its large.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

My bad, unfamiliar with any bugs that do that, but ambrosia beetles do make toothpick kind of dust excrement, but it doesn't look so much like shavings as those do. If it's a shaving that holds together, it's from sawing. If they crumble in your hand like dust, it's a beetle.

 

[Bullseye T&L]

Ambrosia beetle

 

[Bullseye T&L]

Remove the bark, you will see much better then the holes the bark beetle makes, its large.

Ambrosia beetles tend to bore past the cambium layer deep into the wood. Generally, you're not going to see a lot of galleries in the cambium like you would for some of the other insects. It's also why systemic pesticides aren't going to do much for you if you don't get it treated before they attack.

 

[Bullseye T&L]

y bad, unfamiliar with any bugs that do that, but ambrosia beetles do make toothpick kind of dust excrement, but it doesn't look so much like shavings as those do. If it's a shaving that holds together, it's from sawing. If they crumble in your hand like dust, it's a beetle.

They don't look like they've fallen far enough to get busted up. IDK. This is where we need the photo through a loupe

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

I was just out spraying with a borax solution, hoping for the best, when I heard occasional "knocking" or "tapping" from within the logs.

What does that? No woodpeckers in sight.

 

[Bullseye T&L]

There's a few of beetles that do that. Click beetles and deathwatch beetles are two. Also, do you have a closer picture of the frass? It was hard to tell if those were just solid toothpicks, or sawdust toothpicks. The more I look at them, the more they look to be solid. In that case, I think one of the other posters may have gotten it right with longhorn beetle.

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

There's a few of beetles that do that. Click beetles and deathwatch beetles are two. Also, do you have a closer picture of the frass? It was hard to tell if those were just solid toothpicks, or sawdust toothpicks. The more I look at them, the more they look to be solid. In that case, I think one of the other posters may have gotten it right with longhorn beetle.

Hope this helps. They seem solid to me, like small toothpicks. For what it's worth, I did not hear any noise while I was taking those shots just now.

 

[Bullseye T&L]

Yeah those are solid. I's go with longhorn beetle. Ambrosia beetle has the toothpicks made of compacted sawdust.

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

Yeah those are solid. I's go with longhorn beetle. Ambrosia beetle has the toothpicks made of compacted sawdust.

What treatment? Think the logs are trashed now? Or mill them ASAP?

 

[Bullseye T&L]

What treatment? Think the logs are trashed now? Or mill them ASAP?

Since you're in New York, I would consider contacting your county extension office and trying to talk to someone there and see if they can help you get a positive ID. I know IF it's Asian LHB, then there are some specific protocols for the wood. However, since there hasn't been a definitive ID, I'd get somebody from your area to nail it down. We don't have ALHB down here. I honestly don't know if it attacks downed pine, but your local extension could help get that answered.

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

What treatment? Think the logs are trashed now? Or mill them ASAP?

I sprayed the logs with a gallon of my home brew borate solution and days later do not see any new frass (?) or hear any clicking in that pile.
The county agent thought it was some critter after bugs in the bark. The absence of any marks on the bark seem to make that at "give him such an obviously wrong opinion he won't call back". Is that too cynical?

 

[Mike Van]

I'm right next to you in Ct. You have big grubs in your logs now, if it's real quiet, you can hear them in the logs chewing. A bug called a sawyer beetle drilled small pencil point holes on your logs & layed eggs in them, the grubs hatch out & go to work. Spraying the outsides now is a waste of time, been there, done that. Your county agent must be a real genius to not have know this. If you can peel the bark you'll find a lot of these grubs still under it. The lumber you make from these logs will have all these bore holes in the boards, White pine logs are not safe after being cut here, The old timers would dump them in ponds to keep the sawyer beetles from laying the eggs.

 

[Joseph Acquisto]

I'm right next to you in Ct. You have big grubs in your logs now, if it's real quiet, you can hear them in the logs chewing. A bug called a sawyer beetle drilled small pencil point holes on your logs & layed eggs in them, the grubs hatch out & go to work. Spraying the outsides now is a waste of time, been there, done that. Your county agent must be a real genius to not have know this. If you can peel the bark you'll find a lot of these grubs still under it. The lumber you make from these logs will have all these bore holes in the boards, White pine logs are not safe after being cut here, The old timers would dump them in ponds to keep the sawyer beetles from laying the eggs.

Yep. I doubt I will seek out that guy for advice in the future.

Exactly as you said, lots of holes and grubs. I have peeled the logs and hope for the best. But . . .

What do you mean by "not safe" after being cut here? Not safe to "store" because of the beetles? Not safe to use even after drying? Am I wasting time and effort milling these things?

 

[Mike Van]

Not safe to store is what I meant - Those sawyer beetles have a way to find fresh cut pine, only real way to stop them i've found is debark the logs as soon as the trees are cut down - dead of winter is o.k, they aren't active them. You can still mill them, use the lumber for anything looks doesn't matter. you can caulk all the holes too, They're will be a lot of blue stain in them now too.