What the hell?

[Log hog]

I'm not new to the tree service industry, but have one good question. Do you need to have a written contract or is a hand shake/verbal enough? The reason I ask is because I just had a client call and told me he had to cancel and that he talked to another tree service, he gave the name and how much they were charging. I bid him the job on the 30th of June and he called back and went with me on the 1st of July. Thats four days later and gets me steamed. The competition:blob5: that he said he went with, is very new to the game and I've only seen them once or twice around town. I know that they are very limited in experience and equipment. He said that they would do the job for a $100 less than I bid. The job entails dropping four 30-40' spruce pine trees grinding out those stumps and two preexisting stumps. The area is tightly fenced in and the stumps have roots going every where. I felt that $600 was a fair price to do the job, maybe even a little low. What do I do now, just stew in my anger or what?

 

[treeman82]

NEXT! Just move on to the next job. You didn't get burned for money or anything, so pretty much you just got underbid. Even if you have a contract, it's only as good as the people who are writing / signing it.

 

[1CallLandscape]

well, from experience those are the jobs that you need to step back and think why the customer went with somebody else for 100$ less ( a very minor # amount in the business). generally that means that they are very cheap. also i have learned from ALOT of simalar experiences that those are the customers can be a real pain in the arse wen you start the job and often after completion of the job it they result in a non-payment or aguement about the work. Another reason is that maybe the other company could start doing the job sooner than you could.. ( again i dont know all of the specifics)

My best advice is that: as it really stinks that the job was lost, you have to move on and learn from your experiences: dont underbid too low, you still need to pay for equipment, supplys, fuel, help etc. Remember you are in the business to make money. Other companys will always underbid you and generally speaking that is a "good" thing most competant customers will choose the middle bidder and not the lowest ( quality of work) I have another company in my area that constantly underbids me and sometimes he wins but mostly doesnt. Good luck!

-mike

 

[squisher]

I'm new to urban forestry but have worked with trees for a decade. From what I've seen what you experienced is very common and just part of being in the industry. I quoted one job that was done by a competitor less than a day later. I was working for the guys neighbor when he asked if I could give him a quote for some work on his property. Obviously just trying to see if he's getting a good price. Now if he had told me to do the job and then backed out I would be pissed. Not much you can do without a signed contract though so I'd just move on to the real customers. Maybe he'll get what he deserves a busted up fence.

 

[Treeinnovator]

always get them to sign something. it protects you more than them. i can't imagine doing things verbally...with all that can go wrong.

 

[Tio]

Don't sweat it and move on to the next job.

If you are getting all the jobs you bid; you are probably too low.

 

[Log hog]

Thanks 1calllandscpe, Guess I was just looking for some input and a shoulder to on. I do the best I can and I try and never underbid myself. Another tree service around town that has been here 20+ years told me once, that every 5 years or so there are a number of start ups. He said don't sweat it because most all of them give up in a year or so, after they see how much is involved. Especially when they see how much of an operating cost there is and all the types of equipment needed and that its back breaking work, and that the work is not just on a Saturday or Sunday, or a few hours after work. The work is all day and then estimates and phone calls. They start to realize its a whole new ball game and call it quits.I try and stay positive, my business grows every year, more and more. So for the most part I am happy, its just crap like that, which gets me pissed off.

 

[ASD]

always get a seined contract and when they award you the job get a 10% depo!!!! (to hold the time slot )even if its only $50 people will stop looking for the better deal once they put their $ down

 

[Log hog]

Tio, I get about 80% of the work I bid, which I fell is pretty good. I'm not sure what other peoples average is. Does a contract scare customers off, does it really secure the job or is it a waste of time or what?

 

[Log hog]

ASD, where, how and what should the contract say. Is this something I get at Staples, Office Max, or have an attorney/accountant draw it up.

 

[ASD]

ask your computation for a copy of what they use. or have them right one of your friends an est.:hmm3grin2orange:
laws change from state to state so what i use pry wont help u

 

[Tio]

Tio, I get about 80% of the work I bid, which I fell is pretty good. I'm not sure what other peoples average is. Does a contract scare customers off, does it really secure the job or is it a waste of time or what?

We average about 60, maybe 70% or so.

As for your question about contracts?

I suppose that depends on the customer.

We get some that insist on a signed contract and others who say it isn't necessary.

A contract protects you in that you can describe the exact scope of work to be accomplished and keeps those naggy type customers from insisting you do more than the original agreement called for.

A job completed to the customer's satisfaction takes on a whole new meaning when you run into one of those types.

A contract will fix that right up.

 

[1CallLandscape]

Tio, I get about 80% of the work I bid, which I fell is pretty good. I'm not sure what other peoples average is. Does a contract scare customers off, does it really secure the job or is it a waste of time or what?

i average about the same and i do think when you bring up the word contract, many people tend to think twice about your service. i only do contracts on a job over 3000$ and i take 50% up front. if it is a job 10,000$+ i take 50% up front halfway through the job i get another 25% and the remaining amount upon completion. this ensures me a bak up plan, if the customer is a "dud" i can atleast cover my costs and pay my help. generally since 90% of my work is gotten through referrals and word of mouth i have had pretty good luck as far as customers go, but i still ocassonally get one that im unsure about and i get a deposit without a contract.

-mike

 

[Treeman67]

I'm not new to the tree service industry, but have one good question. Do you need to have a written contract or is a hand shake/verbal enough? The reason I ask is because I just had a client call and told me he had to cancel and that he talked to another tree service, he gave the name and how much they were charging. I bid him the job on the 30th of June and he called back and went with me on the 1st of July. Thats four days later and gets me steamed. The competition:blob5: that he said he went with, is very new to the game and I've only seen them once or twice around town. I know that they are very limited in experience and equipment. He said that they would do the job for a $100 less than I bid. The job entails dropping four 30-40' spruce pine trees grinding out those stumps and two preexisting stumps. The area is tightly fenced in and the stumps have roots going every where. I felt that $600 was a fair price to do the job, maybe even a little low. What do I do now, just stew in my anger or what?

Few day ago , i got called from this guy wanted me come out and see if i wanted to do tree removal. while i was meeting with him , frist thing he asked me do i take wood for trade, i told him no, it service fees,he had several tree he wanted to take out which i couldn't make excat bid, so i told him i'll bid by the days, my guess probably 2 day, so him and i talk, he wanted to talk with his wife about it and maybe not get this job after 2 or 3 months,so i had gut funny about him, so i told him i'll called later... i did not make made bid to him how much,i planned to called him i'll pass...
Treeman67

 

[trevmcrev]

Sounds like a customer you dont need any way. Likely to dud you or not be happy, want more done etc. We use a signed contract that describes the job as per the quote given and it explains many factors that experience has taught me theyll try to dispute, eg. all pruning to AS4373, stump grinding depth and limitations, etc. We also take 25% deposit on jobs over $500. They are far less likely to drop you at that point to save a few bucks, especially when thier contract explains that they forfiet thier deposit if they cancell unless for reasons like we couldnt start the job within the estimated time frame we gave or they couldnt get a permit or something. Conversion rate (measured accurately) is around 45%. We are often the dearest quote people get, but we want to deal with the clients that are willing to pay more for quality & service. Let the lowbidders work for the cheapskates i say.

Trev

 

[Treeman67]

Sounds like a customer you dont need any way. Likely to dud you or not be happy, want more done etc. We use a signed contract that describes the job as per the quote given and it explains many factors that experience has taught me theyll try to dispute, eg. all pruning to AS4373, stump grinding depth and limitations, etc. We also take 25% deposit on jobs over $500. They are far less likely to drop you at that point to save a few bucks, especially when thier contract explains that they forfiet thier deposit if they cancell unless for reasons like we couldnt start the job within the estimated time frame we gave or they couldnt get a permit or something. Conversion rate (measured accurately) is around 45%. We are often the dearest quote people get, but we want to deal with the clients that are willing to pay more for quality & service. Let the lowbidders work for the cheapskates i say.

Trev

you are smart businessman, Trev...

Treeman67

 

[Treeinnovator]

so him and i talk, he wanted to talk with his wife about it and maybe not get this job after 2 or 3 months, had gut funny about him, told him i'll called later... i did not make made bid to him how much,i planned to called him i'll pass..

WTF ????????????????

 

[Treeinnovator]

i average about the same and i do think when you bring up the word contract, many people tend to think twice about your service.

i think the opposite is true. if you have a nice shiny contract with yellow carbonless copy to give to them, they view you as a legit..lic+ins company. it's the yahoos running around in the pick-ups with no credentials that they worry about.

 

[Treeinnovator]

We average about 60, maybe 70% or so.

are those %'s based from yellow page ads? i noticed yellow page customers tend to shop more.

 

[Tio]

We average about 60, maybe 70% or so.

are those %'s based from yellow page ads? i noticed yellow page customers tend to shop more.

No.

That is just an overall figure on the jobs we bid.

It includes word of mouth, door hangers, flyers, phone book ads, and just talking to people who see us work.

It also includes lot clearing, new maintenance contracts, skidsteer work, small backhoe work, retaining walls, as well as replacing culverts, and clearing fence-rows.

That figure ain't bad in my opinion.

If you are getting all you bid (or say you are), then there are about only two reasonable answers to explain this thing.

A. You are bidding too low.

B. There is nobody else in the area to do the work.