where do you draw the line?

[treeman82]

At what point do you draw the line between a sales call, and a consulting job? Over the past year I have talked with several clients and they have wanted prices for certain jobs. Some of the jobs were rather involved in putting bids together. 1 had me calling the east coast looking for trees, others had me calling several suppliers looking for out of the ordinary things, calling subs, bothering other arborists, etc.

Now I know that this is all part of doing business, and I don't mind taking the time to quote somebody on pruning this tree, or removing that one, or cabling this, etc. However when they start asking for things where it takes me time to put the price together, and then they don't take my bid... it kind of ticks me off.

Basically, what do you guys do in this kind of situation?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Nobody, I mean nobody, likes to admit that a big part of tree work is sales.
I think I'm a great climber, but if I'm sent to top out a tree, the customer will have a topped out tree.
If the salesman on the job can't get around a customer fishing for information, he shouldn't be selling.
If this thread is about where to draw the line, well, it's about giving enough informatoin to show that you know your stuff, but not enough that he can do it himself. If you need to call around for prices for a job, it's good experience, next time you won't need to.

 

[Tim Gardner]

Mike is right about the selling. If the salesperson does not get the bid the crew does not work. After selling for a while you can tell within just a few minutes whether it is a sale or just a courtesy call. I have lost bids to those do-it-your-self people and cursed all the way back to the truck just to get a callback a year later for a larger bid and win it. Besides, you will make up for it when you get one of those “it is in the front yard marked with a ribbon” calls that are a surefire win and great profit.

 

[treeman82]

Thanx guys. We are on the same page to some extent, but to another... not quite. I'm not worried about the DIY people, they really don't bother me... I'm happy to help, cause they are no threat to me, and they also get me work.

The things I am referring to are more like for 2 examples:

1) A client who COULD afford it, we were talking one day about some arborvitae on his property... BIG suckers, I've shown pictures on here of them before. I told him that they had to go, because they were rotten and leaning over the house. He said "alright, but can you get me a price on new trees of the same size, I like the way they look." So sure enough I went and called around the area for trees the same size... nobody had them. I got a number for a large tree broker out in Oregon... called them, no luck. Called a couple companies in PA, and also a couple plant detectives. Never could find anything bigger than 30 - 35'. Had another incident similar in nature to this a couple months later on, guy wanted a price for radial trenching. Went and found places to bring the spoils (all 240 yards) and got prices for new soil to be brought in. Called the guy with the price... "oh, I'm not gonna do anything now, but thanx anyway." Couple months after that he gets rid of me because "I don't have enough time" Got somebody else in there to be a "1 stop shop."

2) Sent a package to a fire company for fertilization... they had never had the place fertilized before and therefore had no specs. I wrote my own specs and sent them a packet with those specs and prices. Didn't get the job. Talked with a friend today, well apparently they took some parts of my bid, and placed them in the specs.

That's the kind of stuff I am ticked about. I was wondering if anybody tries to get a consulting fee for that kind of thing?

 

[Greg]

Like Mike said calling around to answer some questions is not such a bad thing cause you will have that info with you for all future jobs, but giving the customer something of value like:
-A detailed inventory of thier trees and suggested work
-Detailed fert specs
Or anything like this that they can use for themselves or use to go find low ballers to do all of the work is somthing that I would charge for. Tough to put a price on that kind of thing, but when doing it think of how else they could obtain this information, I would think that in most areas most tree guys write the estimate and jump in the truck, not many will take the time to do this, or have the ability to do it --charge by the hour what you get when you are climbing.
Greg

 

[TREETX]

Sales is a HUGE part of tree work. After all, the profession is TREE CARE not TREE CLIMBING.

A huge part of sales is reading a customer and qualifying them. 1st I want to know who they are a ref from or if they come from the YPs. Just ask, "Most of my work is from references, (this states you have many happy customers), was I a reference from anyone?" That will tell you a lot. I will give a free consult to a ref from a good customer. You keep the good customer happy and may sell work down the road with the ref or the customer. Plus the original customer is more likely to refer you again when at a dinner w/friends and one says, "I have this tree with xyz..."

Sales is selling what the TREE needs and the CUSTOMER needs - balancing the 2.

I arm customers with free info but anything other than a written bid costs. That includes detailed specs.

People can be hard to deal with. I went to bid a job yesterday. The man said to give him something in writing. I got his email so I could shoot him a well laid out bid/proposal on letterhead. He demanded that I give him a hard document (not a fax) with my signature plus TWO copies of an insurance cert. That just slapped an extra $500 on the bid because I can see a mile away this man is going to be difficult plus paranoid cya people are usually the ones to be slow to pay in the end. This guy also said I was stupid for taking checks because he could give me a bad one and asked how I would collect a bad debt. He suggested an IRS for for uncollected debt, blah blah, blah or a lien. He asked if that is what I would do. I said yes but really I was thinking, "I would just kick your a$$"

I have done many a 5K+ job on nothing more than a handshake. They all ended the same, I had a check and glass of water in my hand before the raking was finished.

It all comes down to reading and qualifying people.

I hate the calls for 30K+ jobs where you have to get out there, take their specs, walk the job for 2+hrs, type up a proposal, get an insurance cert, just so they can take the lowest bid.

Live, learn. Somethings you can't learn in school.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Live and learn, every bid is a chance to learn something new

Sell yourself, not the product

Learn when to hold what cards close to your chest

Don't sweat the everything so much

----

When your starting out in anything, you need to prove yourself more, so you have to give more away. Even if you've been doing it a while, you may still want to give free consultations to the public, too a point.

in the arborvitae situation I may have called a few places, but not put a whole lot of effort into it untill I closed the deal.

Onething some people get confused is thinking "my customers" wehm realy we are "there contractor" it is much easier for them to dump us then the other way around. Most guys need a realy obnoxiouse paying customer to walk away.

Once you give the prospective costomer something, it is theirs to do with as they so choose.unless you can copywrite it

 

[treeman82]

Thanx guys. You have just helped me an awful lot . I just have to ask one more thing now in regards to this stuff.

If you are going to a perspective client's place and they ask you to get them a detailed bid, with specs, etc... would you tell them something along the lines of "Sure, I'll get right on it, but I just have to tell you that I get $XXXX per hour for consulting work, however if you do have us do the work, we will put that consulting time towards the bill for actually doing the work."

What are your thoughts on that kind of thing?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

For detailed reports I will ask a consulting fee. I always give itemized writen bids.

Most of my bids for large properties tend to ne rather verbose, but I have the verbiage prety "boiler plate" and can do it pretty quick (though I'm a tad rusty these days).

I had a lady who had a tresspass from a neighbor wh had his workers butcher her shubs and trees. She called me asking for a bid so she could submit it to her insurance agent. I got the impression that she was DIY and just needed the bids to get the check, so I told her $25 I would write up a quick landscape plan and plant list. I included that time in my bid so it would be included in the check she got.