workmans comp

[darkstar]

I have been in business several years . I out right own only ,one chipper, one box one dump, a new Holland ls180 steer skid loader , and one good f 700 dump .and of course about 12 saws and various tree gear . Ive been paying cash for all equipment and started to really build my business about 3 years ago when i got married .Its been going well . I always 1099 my 3 regular workers 2 climbers and one ground man . Recently i began thinking of insuring my crew and witholding .In my state we are only required to have workmans comp if we have 5 or more full timers . I checked into rates and have found it will cost me 39 dollars for every one hundred i pay each worker . There is no way i can afford that at this time . How many of you all carry workmans comp and how CAN you afford it and still be reasonable in price . ? baffled .... 390 .00 us dollars per every thousand ... last year i would have owed workmans comp close to 40000 if i reported everything accurately... AND at that rate i could not compete i pay my ground man 100 a day and my climbers 150 a day . they always show up and really work well ..... For now i will keep 1099 ing but i sincerely want to provide my crew with some benefits ,good pay and a future ..... ANY ADVICE ?

 

[darkstar]

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sorry about the english errors and spelling etc . 20 years running saws havent done much for my grammer ...

 

[alanarbor]

I'd be careful about your liability to your "subs" If they are working for you over a certain amount of hours, you may be required to cover them as an employee with WC. I'm not sure, but I have heard of some issues around that. You may want to get some advice from a business Attorney to help you make some informed descisions....

 

[darkstar]

subs

Yes i have checked with my local BBB. As long as i can prove that my subs work their own jobs and hours and provide some of their tools ,i am riding the line between sub and employee .So far its the only way i can opperate as several of my competitors are doing exactly the same thing . What i really want is to find workmans comp for less ...haha

 

[Ax-man]

WC bites doesn't it, you won't be competitive if you start carrying the insurance and your competition elects not to carry it, this is why there is always such a wide gap between the high bid and the low ball bid, the playing field is not level.

1099 are for subs, from what you are describing these guys are employee's not sub's. If one of them was to get hurt seriously on the job and they don't have their own insurance, guess what will happen, first they find a shark (comp lawyer ) and sue you, they will take your business, personal assets, anything of tangible value to satisfy the judgement, if that is not enough they go after the property owner where the accident occurred, mostly likely they will have insurance and they go for the deep pockets, it is all about money. That is how it works here in the good old Land of Lincoln.

WC is there to protect you and your clients from these types of lawsuits in case a worker gets injured. On the reverse side it also helps the injured worker, but unfortunately the whole darn system has gotten out of hand and has been abused that we have lost sight of the original purpose for carrying WC in the first place, I don't how it is in Tenn. but here in Ill. it is the law that you carry the insurance, but that has never stopped the hacks and lowballers from competing in this business.

I could go on and on too, this is a very very sore subject to me.

Larry

 

[tophopper]

1099's and work comp have nothing do with each other at all. Personally, if I were you, Id be ashamed to admit Ive been going without required ins like WC. You OWE it to your employees to have it and by not having it and exposing workers to our potentially dangerous industry, well, what does that say about you and your business.
I dont mean to sound harsh, but get the coverage, you NEED it!!

 

[darkstar]

i know

i know i need it but how can i pay 39 on every 100 earned ? lets see on an average day i pay 2 climbers 300 and one ground man 100 so total is 400, in labor, i only make 250 for chipper , dump , advertising , liability etc barely nothing .total of 650 ... anyhow my wc fee on 400 is nearly 160 on only one day [so 650 job ] plus 160 workmans comp would be[ 810 ]. no way can i even come close to the other estimates .... i could however pay my guys less ...bummer for them ... or charge more and just work them part time since i would not get about half the jobs i get now ... and suppose one of them does get seriously hurt ... i can still be sued ... id rather pay health for my guys then at least they would be truly covered .... wc pays very little ....
i understand i do need wc however .... how can i get it cheaper anyone ?

 

[darkstar]

i guess the bottom line for me is ...i started out with 2 chainsaws alot of expierence and one old pick up ... less than 3 years ago .. now i own what i mentioned above and buisness is getting good ... but its gonna be hard to make a transition where i increase my estimates by 30 % ... i cant see surviving that ..

 

[alanarbor]

Let me get this right, you are at $810 for a three man day? With WC? If you don't mind my saying so, that's dirt cheap... under $35/man per hour.

When you run this 3 man crew, do you have to be out with them, or are you out getting new business? If you're business is coming from referrals, and word of mouth, your business is much less affected by the lowballers than you think.

If you are always trying to win jobs on price, you are killing yourself. It's a necessary evil to get yourself going sometimes, but if you are going to take the next step with your business, you will have to accept some serious discomfort. If you have set yourself apart by giving clients service that "wows" them, you will not have to worry too much, they will gladly pony up for you. If even your repeat "loyal" clients still go for multiple bids every time, I would evaluate how you are serving them, and see what changes you can put into practice get and keep their loyalty.

 

[MasterBlaster]

lets see on an average day i pay 2 climbers 300 and one ground man 100 so total is 400, in labor,

That don't sound right, to me. One climber and two groundies is more the norm. Two climbers would keep one groundie buried. And that's $50 ( or $13,000 annually) more crew labor, also. Saving that would help to pay your comp.

 

[darkstar]

well i go for the 2 climbers , as the climber , on the ground, is an excellant groundie ... yeah i know 35 an hour is cheap and no im not a low baller .. no where close ... i worked in maine and N.E. your prices are much higher in the north ... im here in old dixie, in chattanooga ... but i get the message here you all are paying 35 to 39 per 100 dollars on your employees for wc. ok ill make it happen

 

[MasterBlaster]

well i go for the 2 climbers , as the climber , on the ground, is an excellant groundie.

Yur lucky, bro. That's an ideal situation!

 

[Lumberjack]

I am even deeper in dixie (down here with butch) and I get $125 an hour with my basic setup. I have a 1987 1/2 ton, 18' trailer, and the regular climbing and rigging gear. It sounds like your a low baller based on what you have compared to what I have, and what i actually get.

That is for me and 2 groundies. I am getting a 1 ton soon, looking at a 99 model now, a chipper, dump trailer, maybe a GRCS, and front end loader for my Ford 3930 all this summer hopefully.

After i get the gear from above, depending on what chipper i get and all, i may be up to 200 an hour plus, depending on the job.

 

[ORclimber]

Darkstar, Have you looked into running your guys through a service? Like a labor ready, etc. They may be able to offer better rates.

 

[darkstar]

.

lumber jack . do you carry workmans comp ?
i have checked the temps . whoa way more $$$$

 

[TreeJunkie]

I can understand being in a lower income area. I've worked down south a few times as well as in more rural areas of kansas where cost of living is much lower than where i live. But my god man! No matter where you live the equipment costs the same, as does the insurance and i'm pretty sure that it's just as risky a business where you are as it is here.
In k.c most credible operations are charging 75hr for a climber, and 50-65 hr. for an experienced groundie. If you charge less than 50 an hour here in town your a low baller/hack. All in all for a 3 man crew w/ that kind of equipment you should have no problem pulling approx. 1,500 a day.

 

[Newfie]

but i get the message here you all are paying 35 to 39 per 100 dollars on your employees for wc.

Or more. Last quote I got in Mass was $59 per $100.


How can you be making any money at the rates you charge?

 

[Treeman14]

Most small companies in Florida cannot get coverage for less than $80 per $100. You have to go through a leasing company for rates around $50 per $100. You have to put things in the proper perspective. $40,000 a year seems like a lot of money, but think about how much a major medical (or fatality) claim could cost you.

 

[trimmmed]

Welp, I guess I'll just quitmy?????in about paying $26 on $100 for carpentry, these numbers are scary :umpkin:

 

[clearance]

Crazy rates for you guys, up here in B.C. Canada I think that the base rates are all under 10% I think that construction starts around 5 bucks per hundred paid out, logging is around $7 and your rates go down for each claim free year. When I cut myself spacing my boss was choked cause it put him slightly over 10%, and this was after other wage loss claims he had that year. Up here everyone ?????es about the workers comp. and in many cases rightly so, but you guys are getting robbed.