Yarder logging

[Chad ward]

Do you have to have elevation with mountains for a yarder system to work? I'm a wet land logger in the south east looking for a system to harvest tracts with low density stems per acre, not enough volume for a matt logging system.

 

[northmanlogging]

not necessarily, If you run a three drum yarder have a tall enough tower, or run the old school constant haulback it can be done on flat ground. The trick is getting the carriage back to the choker setters, which is usually accomplished with gravity, but with a three drum you set one drum to pull the carriage into the brush one to lift, and one to pull the logs out of the brush. with the old constant haulback one capstan type pulls the carriage in or out of the brush, just use forward or reverse...

I would be careful running a yarder in swamps though you need to have really strong roots to make a Skyline system work, there is a boat load of presure on the tail hold, usually a stump or a "lift tree" and I admit to assuming that swamp trees do not have deep roots?

That aside I bet a guy could pick up a decent used yarder for cheaper than a new skidder with gigantic tires on it? but your still gonna need a crew that can run the thing for you... good luck

 

[slowp]

A high lead system, where there is no carriage--just butt rigging, works on flat ground in clearcuts. That used to be done a lot around here. Here is a video and they have a rider block. You can high lead without, but you may plow a nice ditch in the ground if the yarder is powerful enough.

[video=youtube_share;pxJYMndMsdA]http://youtu.be/pxJYMndMsdA[/video]

 

[hammerlogging]

Do you have to have elevation with mountains for a yarder system to work? I'm a wet land logger in the south east looking for a system to harvest tracts with low density stems per acre, not enough volume for a matt logging system.

your question will not be whether it is physically feasible, which it is, and it has been done, but if its economically viable, depending on the value of those stems. yarders are more affected by density than most systems and the logging bill is affected by this.

 

[bitzer]

Sounds expensive.

 

[northmanlogging]

Bitzer and Hammer are correct, Yarders may be easy to obtain, but not cheap to move or set up, plus you're going to need a crew of at a minimum 3 experienced people, The operator needs to know what he is doing and be familiar with the machine otherwise people get hurt, the rigging slinger and hook tender need to at least be familiar with the system preferably be very experienced, just to make it work, In reality a few more bodies would make the job faster and easier, add at least one more choker setter to the mix, and a chaser, and a side rod, loader operator, processor operator. At the end of the day all these Guys and gurls want to get paid.

Other than being expensive its not a bad Idea:msp_biggrin:

 

[slowp]

Yarder whistles are a cheery noise to hear on a foggy morning.

 

[Slamm]

I pondered doing this, but it just doesn't seem practical from a man power point of view and you're in softer swamps than I am, will swamp grown trees hold anything in those soft soils? I mean for the support cables to attach to. I would think you would pull every tree out of the mud after awhile.

I'm going the route of large flotation tires, its much less expensive and doesn't require different experience or skills or more manpower.

I also have the option of just working faster when it freezes or is dry, but don't likely have that option in a Florida swamp.

Sam

 

[slowp]

Twisters and a small stump. This is one of the problems faced when the old stumps are too rotten to use for a tailhold and the plantation is young. Note the rigging crew size. There's also a yarder engineer, shovel operator, and chaser on the crew that are not shown. They are up on the landing.

View attachment 261954

 

[OlympicYJ]

As others are stating your crew and tail holds are going to be a problem. Low volume also creates an economic problem in that you need to recover a high volume to pay your costs. Factoring into that is you will be doing more road changes because your volume isn't high. That adds cost. And being flat ground you're going to be runnin but rigging instead of a drop line carriage which also reduces the width of your roads. Thereby exacerbating the constant road changes. Trust me if you damage a carriage you don't want that repair bill! They are a great machine but if crap goes sideways and somthing happens to it they are not cheap to fix. Also with having a hard time with tail trees you're going to have a hard time with guy stumps and would probably have to bury deadmen or buy a bunch of D8 cats to use instead. I've seen at least 3 8's on a tower myself. The physical constraints of your particular ground makes it difficult to run a full blown tower.

Ok in a previous thread. For the foresters... we discussed matt logging a bit. I just sat in on a discussion about it. I have an idea but first I have a few questions. How big are the units, acerage wise and skid distances? Specifically how does the low volume make the matt infeasable? How woul you normally log a low vol unit like this, or would you not?

 

[hammerlogging]

the buncher builds a corduroy road on its way out, then cuts the side of the road, shovels pass stems to the road for skidders to take to roadside landing. If there is not enough material to build the road, no skidders, no logging. 200 acre blocks, roads about 4-500 feet apart. Tracjed machines can run the swamp, even skidders with doubles will break through easily without a proper corduroy road. they are constantly adding/adjusting weal spots as they go. They pull the muddy nasty stems from the road on their way out. But, I've had the pleasure of seeing both skidders and tracked machines "broken through" and severely sunken in the swamps and each time its nearly time to give up, there's lots of suction down there. Can't get the door open deep.

To the OP, it is not quite as bad as it sounds, but given low density, helicopter may be more feasible, as silly as it sounds. They do swamps often. A buncher can (fellerbuncher, any mechanized felling option really) can help with the density issue because they can increase the density on each road ("corridor") by also shovelling to under the lines. Also, not all machines need quite the crew as described, this is a west coast model described, more euro models are designed for smaller turns, smaller crews, bettter mobility, faster road changes, and depending on circumstances, sometimes lower $/ton or $/mbf. A carriage system is not impossible by any means with mid span hoists, and a big 30 ton track hoe would be plenty suitable for a tail hold with a yarder the size you would need.

 

[northmanlogging]

there is also the Swing Yarder method, I understand the Aussies and Kiwis use that method pretty often, basically there is a winch operated grapple hanging from where a normal carriage would go and they set a shovel on the far end sometimes to help move it about, in this case there is not much need for rigging slingers and choker setters, so you reduce some of the crew.

 

[OlympicYJ]

I had forgot about grapple yarders. A mobile tailhold would help with the road changes. Most grapple setups use a mobile tailhold. Cats were traditionally used but they are moving toward shovels. They are heavier, lighter on the land, and can move the timber just out of reach of the grapple foward of the tailhold so they can get it.

Was thinking chopper could be more efficient.

I was originally thinking maybe using a yoder if you could establish th road but was difficult to get off of the skikd road. they aren't pulling big turns and require a smaller crew. The size of the turns doesn't require guy stumps and its much more mobile. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Gologit]

What size is the timber?

 

[Humptulips]

What size is the timber?

That's the best post I've seen yet. Key to knowing what can be done.

Geez, everybody has got skyline on the brain. Low volume swamp sounds like high lead country.
Again though size? Small stuff and no lift= chunks and cats asses.

Good stumps depend on species. Not knowing what they are I won't guess but there are good stumps in the swamp here. You have to know what to look for though.

Swing yarders would suck in this kind of place I'm guessing. All well and good to talk about a tail tree machine for one until you get it mired. I think if the guy could get around with something like that he wouldn't be asking questions. He be skidder logging it.

I think 4 guys to be minimum crew, 5 if you count shovel runner. Engineer, chaser, slinger, hooker.

Love to see a picture.

 

[OlympicYJ]

That's the best post I've seen yet. Key to knowing what can be done.

Geez, everybody has got skyline on the brain. Low volume swamp sounds like high lead country.
Again though size? Small stuff and no lift= chunks and cats asses.

Good stumps depend on species. Not knowing what they are I won't guess but there are good stumps in the swamp here. You have to know what to look for though.

Swing yarders would suck in this kind of place I'm guessing. All well and good to talk about a tail tree machine for one until you get it mired. I think if the guy could get around with something like that he wouldn't be asking questions. He be skidder logging it.

I think 4 guys to be minimum crew, 5 if you count shovel runner. Engineer, chaser, slinger, hooker.

Love to see a picture.

True true. I was thinking if he could maybe get on more solid ground on the edge of the unit but agree. Didn't add that though. Bee doin any trappin? I'm gonna get to come home for the last two days of late buck this weekend. Pretty excited lol

 

[northmanlogging]

wasn't counting Shovel jockey, but the hooker can also sling, its slow but can be done, in a pinch the engineer could also Chase but getting him out of the machine is like winning the lottery, that and with modern Yarders there is a bit of a climb up and down guy would have to be spider man, or spider pig... with a yoder its almost like a swing yarder, only its a shovel too... now ya's got me thinkin...

 

[StihlKiwi]

there is also the Swing Yarder method, I understand the Aussies and Kiwis use that method pretty often, basically there is a winch operated grapple hanging from where a normal carriage would go and they set a shovel on the far end sometimes to help move it about, in this case there is not much need for rigging slingers and choker setters, so you reduce some of the crew.

Yep that's the one. Swinger with interlocking drums, a grapple and a 25 ton excavator as a tailhold would work pretty well. Swamp tracks on the tailhold machine if its particularly soft and Bob's your uncle

 

[Humptulips]

Yep that's the one. Swinger with interlocking drums, a grapple and a 25 ton excavator as a tailhold would work pretty well. Swamp tracks on the tailhold machine if its particularly soft and Bob's your uncle

Not asking the guy to invest very much are you?

Seriously though if he can get a 25 ton excavator around he might as well shovel log it. Maybe put a drum on the shovel to reach some of the softer spots.

Grapple yarders are obsolete.

 

[OlympicYJ]

I agree with ya Hump, grapple yarders are dead for the most part in the US. A certain timber company has one and grapples everything they can; then stick a carriage on it and get the rest of the easier yarder ground. The loggin supe says it's super efficient and cheap compared to runing a full crew. Only reason they do it is cuz they have enough ground to keep it busy. Otherwise it wouldn't be feasable. ALthough I don't know why a Gypo doesn't get one and specialize in grappling and bounce around between different timber outfits to stay busy. Gotta beat L&I somehow. Any insights there Hump?