Your thoughts, removal 200yrOak intact as Art

[artistguy]

Hi, Im putting together a proposal for a community Art project in Walnut Creek, CA. A new library will necessitate the removal of a beautiful 200Yr old Oak tree. My proposal will involve removing the tree intact to preserve its natural sculptural beauty, crane it to a nearby site and mount it on some kind of a foundation. One idea is to cut the tree at its base, crane it into a horizontal position and bore as large and deep a hole from the base up through the trunk as possible (at least 3/4 of the height of the trunk), crane it to a steel post which is set in an engineered foundation, and lower the tree down over the post. The questions I have revolve around how to bore the hole, what dia hole is possible (8"?), who makes the kind of drilling equiptment (drill motor, bits, bit extensions, etc...)that I'd need for this process? Any thoughts on this matter would be greatly appreciated, thanks, Artistguy

 

[musher]

What do you plan to do to deal with the limbs as they dry and start falling over the next few years?

 

[dakota]

No good ideas from me other than a quote from someone more educated, more famous and more wealthy than I am, "Just because we can do something, doesn't mean that we should."

Assuming of course that this can be done.

 

[dakota]

If the tree absolutely has to wasted for a building, why not commission an artist to create a memorial to the tree. Have the tree milled and make some furniture for homeless people or something.

 

[artistguy]

What do you plan to do to deal with the limbs as they dry and start falling over the next few years?

There are about four large diameter limbs that branch out from the crotch of the tree, and like most trees these extend out to smaller and smaller branches. Im planning on cutting the larger branches back to a configuration in which the dia/weight ratio makes for a longer term stability, and can work as an armature for the rest of the project.

 

[skwerl]

Live trees are beautiful. Dead trees are not. Sorry, I think the idea sucks.:censored:

 

[TimberPig]

Live trees are beautiful. Dead trees are not. Sorry, I think the idea sucks.:censored:

I'd have to agree, dead trees left unprotected will decay rather rapidly. The only way a dead tree is beautiful is if the wood is protected and preserved, preferably as lumber used to build something. A dead tree with the limbs trimmed back, stuck on a steel post isn't something I would consider art. Lumber or a chainsaw carver are the best ways to make art out of this tree imo.

 

[artistguy]

I'd have to agree, dead trees left unprotected will decay rather rapidly. The only way a dead tree is beautiful is if the wood is protected and preserved, preferably as lumber used to build something. A dead tree with the limbs trimmed back, stuck on a steel post isn't something I would consider art. Lumber or a chainsaw carver are the best ways to make art out of this tree imo.

I would venture to guess I know at least as much about wood as do you (if not more)after 20 years as a woodworker, and if you think milling a tree up is a better way to "honor" something thats 5 times your age so some wood weenie can make tables and chairs out of it I just disagree. Or....lets see, some creative chainsaw carver could make a big bear holding a honeypot. Anyway... sorry for the sarcasm, Im not going into much detail about what the project is about and will wind up looking like because I just need technical info on the questions I raised. If I were sticking a stump on a post which is what you seem to be imagining Im thinking about doing, I would probably agree with you about its artistice merit.

 

[v8titan]

I would venture to guess I know at least as much about wood as do you (if not more)after 20 years as a woodworker, and if you think milling a tree up is a better way to "honor" something thats 5 times your age so some wood weenie can make tables and chairs out of it I just disagree. Or....lets see, some creative chainsaw carver could make a big bear holding a honeypot. Anyway... sorry for the sarcasm, Im not going into much detail about what the project is about and will wind up looking like because I just need technical info on the questions I raised. If I were sticking a stump on a post which is what you seem to be imagining Im thinking about doing, I would probably agree with you about its artistice merit.

I don't know what diameter tree you are talking about here or even the height for that matter. I guessing at 200 yrs old this thing is 4 feet + in diameter at the base. Height I would guess 70+ feet. If I'm right, from an engineering standpoint, you better design a serious footing for this puppy. I'm also willing to bet that no PE (professional engineer) will put his stamp on a project anything like this. Let's say you get a 50 MPH wind gust; I smell a serious lawsuit when this dead tree / "art work" falls on someone. The fact that you cannot predict the reduction in strength of the trunk over time due to decay etc., it's an accident waiting to happen. Like others said, this is a bad idea.

 

[teamtree]

You have got to be out of your mind

First of all, who is paying for this project? Wouldn't the money you are planning on spending be better spent in various other charitable manners. Is this a public project? It is really stupid in my opinion.

I don't think you have a clue as to what you are doing. By drilling the big hole in the bottom you are lessening the structural value of the tree. I would imagine you would have to put so much bracing and banding on the outside of the tree to keep it safe for the public that it would look really bad. If you are planning on cutting the tree back to take away the natural tips of the of the tree you are going to end up with something really ugly.

Why not transplant the tree?

Listen to what Skwerl said.

I just can't imagine it as with any other artistic endeavor....then again all things touched by man is pretty much a piece of crap...other than a Stihl chainsaw. I like things natural.

 

[skwerl]

Perhaps Artistguy is looking for a way to spend the most possible tax dollars on some sort of artsy government grant. I guarantee he isn't spending a dime of his own money on this idea.

You know, my Aunt Edna is a great old woman. Perhaps when she dies we can honor her by mounting her on a steel pole in the front yard. Makes about as much sense as trying to mount a dead tree on a post. Take the money and plant a hundred or a thousand new trees to honor the grand old monster coming down. That way in 200 years some other artsy guy can propose cutting one down and mounting it on a steel post.

 

[Trinity Honoria]

i've a question for Artistguy-- is this concept 100% yours or are you spring-boarding the idea from what someone else has done? if you were inspired by someone else, can you share how the other project was done? perhaps that could give some clarity...

also, i kind of bristle at your comparison of 'woodwork' to people who maintain and preserve the life of trees... that's apples & oranges... two different skill sets...

anyway, i realize as an 'artist' you don't want to share your uncopyrighted concept, but other than raping the tree with the post, can you explain a bit more?

 

[artistguy]

I don't know what diameter tree you are talking about here or even the height for that matter. I guessing at 200 yrs old this thing is 4 feet + in diameter at the base. Height I would guess 70+ feet. If I'm right, from an engineering standpoint, you better design a serious footing for this puppy. I'm also willing to bet that no PE (professional engineer) will put his stamp on a project anything like this. Let's say you get a 50 MPH wind gust; I smell a serious lawsuit when this dead tree / "art work" falls on someone. The fact that you cannot predict the reduction in strength of the trunk over time due to decay etc., it's an accident waiting to happen. Like others said, this is a bad idea.

You have some good points, the most valuable one being the inability to predict the reduction in strength due to decay, which would be mostly unseen. So the engineering of the thing has to be thought through and the pole idea isnt going to be the right way to do it. Your right that you couldn't predict the stress because its an organic structure not something built with identifiable stresses and mechanical connections. So I appreciate what you have to say here, thanks. Im going to do it some other way.

 

[Reddog]

If you want to honor it. Transplant it to new location. MSU has moved multiple large oaks and not lost any on their campus. As for art, mill the thing in to lumber if your going to kill it.

 

[artistguy]

i've a question for Artistguy-- is this concept 100% yours or are you spring-boarding the idea from what someone else has done? if you were inspired by someone else, can you share how the other project was done? perhaps that could give some clarity...

also, i kind of bristle at your comparison of 'woodwork' to people who maintain and preserve the life of trees... that's apples & oranges... two different skill sets...

anyway, i realize as an 'artist' you don't want to share your uncopyrighted concept, but other than raping the tree with the post, can you explain a bit more?

You're right about the apples and oranges comparison. All of you guys know more about trees than I do, and by saying "I knew more about wood", I think I was addressing someone's concern that I would leave the tree untreated without concern for the weathering that would take place. I know this is a different idea and it is mine, but my reluctance to clarify is not due to proprietary concerns. I think I can explain a bit more, as its an evolving process some of what I say may not make perfect sense. This is just a proposal Im working on to present to the city. I have no clear idea where the money will come from and chances are it may not happen. I live in a house our great grandfather built in 1932. Its on an acre of property right in the middle of downtown. In the 50's the city forced the widowed great grandma to sell the front part of the property so they could build a new library. The civicpark was placed along the left propertyline, and the neighborhood of which we were the house at the end of the culdesac, was sold to the city for a big parking lot. The back of the property has the creek for which the city is named, running through it. So we are literally surrounded by the city, and we have had to wage a mighty battle to keep it from being taken from us through emminent domain. We barely seem to have won the war, and a new library has been redesigned around us, which makes us happy, because we love being here. OK, thats some background. This town has gone from isolated backwater to being highly developed and overly expensive. In short it has seemed to many oldtime residents to be in danger of losing its soul, and its history. This tree is beautiful, and if it were up to me it would be left alone, but it will be cut up for firewood, and ive got a soft spot in my heart for this thing and feel obliged to at least try to do something more important with it. I have an idea about leaving the form of the tree intact, building a spiral stair around its base up to the canopy, where there will be an itegral deck (i dont have that part totally figured out). The tree obviously wont be covered with leaves anymore, so i was going to have the community make hundreds of "leaves", each one in memory of an ancestor and hang these on articulated "branches". These will be more like large mobiles (think alexander calder). Ok thats a rough idea of where Im going with this.....Thanks for the thoughtful response Trinity

 

[Trinity Honoria]

may i suggest you research the cost of relocating the tree, alive??? and for the ancestral tiles, design a walkway around the tree, or some such, where people can purchase a 'tile' or 'brick' with the name on the marker (or something similar... pillars with tiles on it, placed in green areas around the tree, etc)? that turns into a fundraiser, preserves the tree... (i am not a tree person, just a simple woman who wandered in here and hasn't quite found her way out the exit door) but i can hear the tree people holler, "Make the walkway out of the drip line of the tree..."

but i think you're idea can be re-worked nicely without endorsing the killing of the tree... perhaps the folks who have suggested re-locating the tree can point you to some resources... i know the San Diego Wild Life Park has done a number of these over the years...

 

[Gologit]

Why can't the tree just stay where it is? Design the library around it. Don't build the library at all and make the area into a park. With the resources available and the brain-power at your disposal there must be better ideas than just wacking the tree out.