Hi all, new here. I work in an area closely related to forestry and we are having some problems with carpal tunnel syndrome in our workforce. Like rapid onset and progression type problems. So I am curious to ask other professionals who run a chainsaw all day every day, how long do you actually run them in a day? When I say running I'm actually talking full throttle cutting. Like, what percent of the time are you actively holding down the trigger.
How long do you actually run a saw in a day
- Thread starter Aaron H
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Well, what saws are you running? There are many that vibrate too much and newer ones that are way smoother. I updated for newer models that vibrate less.
Mostly brand new MS261s but if our main crew is on site for 8 hours, they're probably full bore 5-6 of those hours.
That's a lot of hours, the only thing you could do is wear like foam gloves to take some vibes away.
They do make gloves specifically for running tools that vibrate. I've worked in assembly plants that utilized pneumatic impacts at some of the assembly stations. When your driving 3,000 to 5,000 fasteners a day, it's a serious issue. I don't recall exactly what gloves they used, but it made a big difference for the operators. I'd assume that they would work well with chainsaws also. Personally, I generally wear Atlas rubber dipped knit gloves when I'm running a saw. They don't do worth a darn on briars, but I love them for handling firewood and they last forever. It does seem like they help a little with vibration compared to no gloves at all. If I were running the saw 4hrs to 6hrs a day, I'd invest in the best anti-vibe gloves I could find. When I was young, I was "tough" and didn't need stuff like that. Now I'm older, and I physically regret the ignorance of my youth.
No way of knowing. Depends on the material and volume, time of year, details of the job, etc.
Could only run saw for an hour, could run for 6+ hours on a 10-12 hour summer day.
Are they staying sharp and keeping depths set properly? Checking bolts (muffler, cylinder, handlebar, and a/v mounts?)
Do yall get a break to refuel and do maintenance? Or does someone just hand you a freshened saw and you keep going?
I ran one for a couple months professionally, 6 hours a day. It was my left hand that had troubles. That was running ancient Macs. I still get the night time numb hand if I run a saw. It goes away except if I've played fiddle for an extra long time then the night time numb hand appears again.
Oh, we were thinning and cleaning up after a logging operation had creamed an area. We worked until the snow melted enough to return to cruising and marking. Six hours is the maximum time allowed (state rules) for falling and I guess we were "falling" although it was saplings and poles. Employers usually expect 6 hours of cutting to occur.
I do not know any cure other than not running a saw, some people go to the doctor and get surgery. Gloves? The SW Warshington timber fallers favored wearing some cotton knit gloves but I noticed no relief when wearing them.
Oh, we were thinning and cleaning up after a logging operation had creamed an area. We worked until the snow melted enough to return to cruising and marking. Six hours is the maximum time allowed (state rules) for falling and I guess we were "falling" although it was saplings and poles. Employers usually expect 6 hours of cutting to occur.
I do not know any cure other than not running a saw, some people go to the doctor and get surgery. Gloves? The SW Warshington timber fallers favored wearing some cotton knit gloves but I noticed no relief when wearing them.
When I was part of a firewood crew we all used 2 saws, swap out each tank. A 6hr day might have 3hrs of trigger time. The rest was brushing and hand splitting, throwing cut wood into a pile.
266xp, 066 was my pair.
266xp, 066 was my pair.
I've run a saw for over 20 years, and as an everyday part of my job for about 5, in addition to other manual labor. Never had a problem until I did that job. The reason I ask is because there may be an opportunity to make some quality kf life chamges and I'm wondering how that work stacks up to other professionals. What I'm getting is, it's not unheard of but it's on the intense end.
I have been pondering this. One possible action would be to consult a physical therapist. They would have stretches and exercises to help and maybe even some changes that could be made.
My question is if you have a death grip on your saw? I remember the first week of thinning was hell. I'd never run a saw other than to cut firewood and in a logging competition. I wasn't relaxing and that took a big toll on my back. I'd have to kind of crawl out of bed in the morning. You have to get comfortable with the saw and pace yourself. That's kind of the way of working in the woods doing anything--pace yourself.
There are little tweakings that can be made, like resting the saw in the thigh while cutting a tree. I'm thinking that gripping too hard with the left hand is problematic. Maybe doing some hand exercises/stretches at each refilling of fuel might help? One guy I know would wear padded bicycle gloves under his work gloves.
The last few years I worked, I'd only run a saw if we had a storm knock down trees on roads. I'd cut blowdown along with the road crew. My left hand would again go numb during the night, and we were using the 440s, not old boat anchor saws. So much for the anti-vibration technology.
Good luck.
I got some cheap anti-vibe gloves for riding my dirt bike. They help me a lot.
But once you have that kind of injury starting, you most likely need at least a Physical Therapist to reduce it. I have bad right elbow tendonitis from my days as auditing construction records. I have changed my computer mouse to my left hand, but my right elbow aches many days. I didn't get professional help.
I have had problems with both Achilles Tendons, if I follow the stretching plan daily, I am just fine, even when I have long days on a fire line. Took a couple of months of physical therapy to get to this point.
But once you have that kind of injury starting, you most likely need at least a Physical Therapist to reduce it. I have bad right elbow tendonitis from my days as auditing construction records. I have changed my computer mouse to my left hand, but my right elbow aches many days. I didn't get professional help.
I have had problems with both Achilles Tendons, if I follow the stretching plan daily, I am just fine, even when I have long days on a fire line. Took a couple of months of physical therapy to get to this point.
440 is by far my favorite obsolete saw. More hours on that model than any three others. Never had any issues with the A/V even on long days on the fireline.
I ran one to take my first bucking certification test. After that, I wanted one. They weighed about the same as Old Sparkless but just ran smoother. I got one for me, marked down as a major dealer was getting rid of them. Rumor was that they had boxes and boxes of 440s and had to make room for the 441s. We bought one (Twinkle) for work too. Kinda got a lecture about that but it was an act now apologize later thing and the guy who wasn't happy didn't understand much about saws. He told us to get a small saw and we reasoned that a 440 was kind of small. Anyway, it was, as a logger used to say, Justright.
My hands were messed up by earlier stuff--thinning with an old saw, bicycle riding, squeezing a paint gun, etc.
Exophysical
ArboristSite Member
I'm admittedly a bit underqualified in this conversation, but my own methods for putting in a full day of tree work, or anything else, are to organize my tasks in an incremental manner which gives my various muscle groups and joints a break.
For instance, I'll fell a tree with my big saw and since I've got it warmed up I'll start bucking from the butt. When I make it up to the limbs I'll grab a smaller saw or axe and do the limbing/ top. Then I might load, stack, or even split what I've already cut, then back to bucking with the big saw etc...
In this manner I can keep going all day without being involved in repetitive motion for long periods of time. What little I might lose in efficiency I think I make up for by being able to maintain a faster pace for a longer time period. Any reason this type of approach could not be taken?
For instance, I'll fell a tree with my big saw and since I've got it warmed up I'll start bucking from the butt. When I make it up to the limbs I'll grab a smaller saw or axe and do the limbing/ top. Then I might load, stack, or even split what I've already cut, then back to bucking with the big saw etc...
In this manner I can keep going all day without being involved in repetitive motion for long periods of time. What little I might lose in efficiency I think I make up for by being able to maintain a faster pace for a longer time period. Any reason this type of approach could not be taken?
Once the tree is on the ground, I start working on the limbs first so that I'm taking the weight off of the tree slowly and in a controlled manor. I've worked from the base up before and had the tree shift significantly on me. We had a volunteer try to do that on a large hickory at a storm sight a few years ago. If he had completed his first cut, the tree would have likely rolled over on him and killed him. We didn't have another way to get to him fast enough, so I ended up throwing my helmet at him and hitting him in the chest with it to get him to stop. I'm not saying you can't start at the trunk. I'm just saying that if you're working from the trunk up, you need to pay a lot more attention to things that are hard to see.
Exophysical
ArboristSite Member
Sure, I guess I can see that. Where I live the tree's grow straight and tall, about the only time they would normaly shift is when you are actually limbing. As you pointed out that wouldnt be the reality everywhere.
I occasionally watch this guy on U tube called "Deadwood Logging", from Serbia and mostly harvesting big multi trunked monstrosities on steep side hills... theres no dialogue but you can see how carefully he has to pick those things apart to avoid getting hurt. So yeah, I can see how my strategy wouldnt work for everyone.
Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
Trigger time?? Maybe... maybe 20% to 25%.. I'm old, retired, and in no hurry. I sharpen ( touch up), after every tank. Does the chain actually need to be sharpened? Well, probably not, but it's a good excuse to take 10 minutes of not running the saw, and especially if it's hot out, to grab a cold bottle of water, and relax a bit.
If it looks like it's going to be an all day job, outside of fuelling and sharpening, there's still a 15 minute break in the morning, another in the afternoon, and a half hour for lunch. So, out of an 8 hour day.. take off a hour for breaks and lunch, take off another hour for set up and pack out / clean up.. It's really only a 6 hour day. 20% of that only 73 minutes of actual trigger time.
If I'm the only one running a saw, I may put in a higher percentage of trigger time, as someone else is dragging brush, loading for the splitter, etc. But, if I'm by myself, ( something that I avoid, unless it's a small dead simple job), since I've got to do it all, yeah, probably around 20% trigger time. If that.
Getting older, I will wear my anti vibe gloves if i'm doing more than a couple of cuts. Cut up more than 1 small tree without them, and I've got the "tinglees" for hours. Cut for the day, with AV gloves, and there's no tingles... ever.
If it looks like it's going to be an all day job, outside of fuelling and sharpening, there's still a 15 minute break in the morning, another in the afternoon, and a half hour for lunch. So, out of an 8 hour day.. take off a hour for breaks and lunch, take off another hour for set up and pack out / clean up.. It's really only a 6 hour day. 20% of that only 73 minutes of actual trigger time.
If I'm the only one running a saw, I may put in a higher percentage of trigger time, as someone else is dragging brush, loading for the splitter, etc. But, if I'm by myself, ( something that I avoid, unless it's a small dead simple job), since I've got to do it all, yeah, probably around 20% trigger time. If that.
Getting older, I will wear my anti vibe gloves if i'm doing more than a couple of cuts. Cut up more than 1 small tree without them, and I've got the "tinglees" for hours. Cut for the day, with AV gloves, and there's no tingles... ever.
I don't remember which medical school it was...and I'm too lazy to do the research...but during a study on carpal tunnel syndrome they wired a couple of fallers to see just how long their exposure was.
I don't remember the actual numbers but they were surprisingly low. For a six hour faller's day they spent less than five hours with the saw actually running and in their hands. Nobody believed the results so they hooked the telemetry up to another couple of fallers and got almost identical numbers. All the fallers they tested were busheling and the pace was in keeping with that. The researchers allowed for walking in and packing out.
The students also hung telemetry on a couple of knot bumpers on a short turn helicopter side. In a nine hour day they were on the saw less than six hours. To be fair, the knot bumpers were also coiling chokers and branding logs.
I don't remember the actual numbers but they were surprisingly low. For a six hour faller's day they spent less than five hours with the saw actually running and in their hands. Nobody believed the results so they hooked the telemetry up to another couple of fallers and got almost identical numbers. All the fallers they tested were busheling and the pace was in keeping with that. The researchers allowed for walking in and packing out.
The students also hung telemetry on a couple of knot bumpers on a short turn helicopter side. In a nine hour day they were on the saw less than six hours. To be fair, the knot bumpers were also coiling chokers and branding logs.
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