I don’t know what the big deal is about plunge cuts. I’ve taught a bunch of novice sawyers how to do them with no problems. These were folks going for their S212 certification. The fact that you are using a plunge cut means there is probably another issue with the tree, like being a leaner, which you need to figure in to your cut plan - but that does not mean the plunge cut itself is difficult.
Plunging: Safer for Amateurs?
- Thread starter Paul Bunions
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
True. I taught myself after watching a video or two. It seems to me the key is to start the plunge cut from the bottom of the bar, then rotate in. But I did see one video where a sawyer started the cut from the top, which seems to carry a high risk of kickback.
If you leave too many high stumps out in the woods, The Forester will not be happy. But that's only in logging units, not pastures.
High stumps mean less utilization of the tree and could be a pain for future loggers to work around. During yarding, the part we all seem to forget about on this forum, logs can get hung up on stumps, making for some creative language used in the brush.
Perhaps we should have a discussion on how logs and stumps should be nicely limbed and stump pull lopped off stumps (bad falling technique) for safety of others? The story was going around the woods where I worked about a rigging crew guy who bled to death after falling on a jagger. And I saw a guy, who wasn't wearing caulks slip and fall hard, coming down on the log, and then thanking his son for the good limbing job--no limb bits to poke. No blood. That's a good thing.
High stumps mean less utilization of the tree and could be a pain for future loggers to work around. During yarding, the part we all seem to forget about on this forum, logs can get hung up on stumps, making for some creative language used in the brush.
Perhaps we should have a discussion on how logs and stumps should be nicely limbed and stump pull lopped off stumps (bad falling technique) for safety of others? The story was going around the woods where I worked about a rigging crew guy who bled to death after falling on a jagger. And I saw a guy, who wasn't wearing caulks slip and fall hard, coming down on the log, and then thanking his son for the good limbing job--no limb bits to poke. No blood. That's a good thing.
Good points.
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
I really hate stumps. I welded up a new attachment for a subsoiler to hook under roots and stumps to yank them loose. I tried sodium nitrate, and it does just about nothing. The tractor attachment is a lot better than nothing, but there are a lot of stumps it can't handle. I've used a sawzall. I've even stuck a chainsaw down in roots, accepting the fact that I'm dulling it.
I wish I could leave stumps 10 feet or more tall so I could put a strap on them and pull them over. Those short stumps can't be pulled. I know it's stupid to use a chainsaw on a ladder, so I can't do what I want.
These stupid oaks rot and drop limbs until you cut them. Then the stumps refuse to rot at all. They stay there forever. Someone explain that.
I wish I could leave stumps 10 feet or more tall so I could put a strap on them and pull them over. Those short stumps can't be pulled. I know it's stupid to use a chainsaw on a ladder, so I can't do what I want.
These stupid oaks rot and drop limbs until you cut them. Then the stumps refuse to rot at all. They stay there forever. Someone explain that.
If you want to have more fun, don't use sodium nitrate. It is hygroscopic and won't dry out. Bore a few holes and fill them with Potassium Chlorate (available from Skylighter), pour some kerosine or diesel fuel on them and then light it. It may not burn the whole stump but it will burn enough to make it crumbly. And the process can be repeated after removing what you can. Caution: Potassium chlorate is a very strong oxidizer. Do not spill it on anything flammable unless you want to burn it. Friction can sometimes cause an ignition. Do not mix it with sulfur.
Absolutely no shortage of idiots on the internet. What part of the bar to start with is really the only thing special to learn about a plunge cut.
Stumps? Explosives. You can make your own but if you do, make out your will first.
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
As long as I'm getting in trouble, let me ask about my way of cutting short logs off leaning trees.
I run into trunks or big branches that stick up or go out sideways all the time. I make a shallow across the log from the bottom to prevent the bottom of the tree from splitting off and forming a strap for the log to swing on, and then I cut down from the top to meet the undercut. The log falls off suddenly and goes straight down. I don't cut long logs. Maybe three feet long, tops, unless they're really thin.
I don't know if I have much choice about this one, given the usual circumstances. I use a pole saw when I can so my feet aren't near the landing zone.
I run into trunks or big branches that stick up or go out sideways all the time. I make a shallow across the log from the bottom to prevent the bottom of the tree from splitting off and forming a strap for the log to swing on, and then I cut down from the top to meet the undercut. The log falls off suddenly and goes straight down. I don't cut long logs. Maybe three feet long, tops, unless they're really thin.
I don't know if I have much choice about this one, given the usual circumstances. I use a pole saw when I can so my feet aren't near the landing zone.
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
The vast majority are under a foot.
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
I have never had a problem making a bore/plunge cut. The saw goes right in. I have never come close to having a kickback, either. I'm always afraid saws will kick back. I try to stand to the side and all that. Never had an issue.
If you try to go in perpendicular, or even worse, have the top 90 degree section of the nose contact first, you are likely to have a kickback, unless you are using a small saw that you can overcome. Also, the saw chain makes a difference. Semi-chisel or low profile "green" chain are less likely to kick back. But I use full chisel, Stihl RS chain. It will definitely kick back hard if you do it wrong.
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
Perhaps terror keeps me safe.
If that would work, few of us would ever die!
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
Any career that regularly involves creating escape routes has to be questioned.
Exophysical
ArboristSite Member
I will give him points for that, I've been involved in all sorts of scary jobs and cant say I've ever seen anyone get hurt. Everyone knows the stakes, they are thinking about every move they make. I've seen a few people get themselves badly hurt or even killed doing routine jobs though.
A funny example was the worst winter I've ever seen, I was making a 500 mile return trip to a remote oil patch facility several times a week. For about 4 months I never even saw the pavement, it was covered in snow every day... I also didnt see a single vehicle, or even tracks going into the ditch. Come March the road cleared up a bit and within the first week there were a handful of accidents.
I firmly believe that being properly scared will keep a guy safe to some degree.
But somebody has to do it. Lumberjack used to be the most dangerous job in the USA. Now it is north sea fishing. No escape route for that one.
I never thought about it that way. Most of the guys I was around took pride in their line of work, and looking for hazards was just part of it. Plus, elaborate escape routes were seldom made. Those were more for the campground hazard trees. Now second and third growth is cut and has less defect--rot in it. However, as a falling guru has said, the job is just as dangerous, if not more, because fallers actually spend more time at the base of the tree due to the quantity cut in a day. He said for that reason, he'd rather be cutting the large old growth here in the PNW.
Mechanized logging--processors and feller bunchers are used on the flatter ground and insurance fees are less when they are used. Some loggers even tether these to a stump and run them on steep ground but that is hard on the soils and, more importantly in this day and age, looks terrible.
I spent time down amongst the rigging crews in skyline yarded units. I always looked for a big stump or tree to dive behind if things went bad. I had to do that once but we were lucky and the skyline didn't break and snap. This was when a tree being cut during yarding--it had been damaged, went over backwards and hit the skyline.
Forestry work involves incurring "boo boos" and bruises. You work in all kinds of weather and different terrain. You learn to butt slide and use vegetation belays. We used to do fire hose belays to get down steep units while burning. (it's best to make sure the hose is hooked up to something substantial before doing that). It can be fun and it can be scary, but the "office" constantly changes. If you like routine, don't go into an outdoor line of work.
You keep on your toes and also rely on your coworkers to watch each other's backs. Unsafe workers are fired.
Note that he's got a nice tree to move behind right there. This was a beautiful place to be on such a nice day. The ground slope isn't horribly steep. It was a commercial thin unit and a yarder was being used. That's not me, I took the picture. This is in the southern, west side of the Warshington Cascade mountains.
Paul Bunions
ArboristSite Operative
I remember scary days when I was practicing law. "The coffee is really hot. Better check the area around the machine for tripping hazards."
