being double tied into a spar question

Plasmech · Nov 25, 2009

I understand that some guys are comfortable with a single wirecore lanyard as being their sole life-line on a spar during chunking operations. However, what is the proper procedure as far as implementing your climbline as well as the lanyard for extra safety? Hoping to see a good picture of someone lanyarded AND "climblined-in" to the spar. I assume you make two wraps with your climbline and effectively use it as a second lanyard, one that will choke the spar and not slide down should your spikes gaff-out on you? Thanks for any help!

alinicoll · Nov 25, 2009

Sorry no pics but lanyard at the top for support and below that (i usually let it hang a bit below is you main climbing system. As tight as you can get it or double wrapped on little stuff, a bit looser on bigger stuff. You want it loose enough that it will slip down easily when you want it to but if you drop it will catch you. I don`t like wire strops either but you can use the same system with a wire strop.

squad143 · Nov 25, 2009

A little hard to tell, but my climbing line is wrapped, along with my (orange) wirecore flipline, around the spar. There was no need to "double wrap" - where are you going to slide to?

Unless the dia. of the tree is really small, I will rarely double wrap. If you're gaffing out regularly, try a different body position, sharpening your spurs, concentrate on what you are doing, or get a different profession.

Occasionally I'll have a single spur slip, rarely both, but when it does happen, they usually bite back in.

squad143 · Nov 25, 2009

On a very large diameter spar, I will tie my climbing line to the spar with a bowline on a bight and then attach it to my harness via a fig.8 descender or beeline with a swabish knot.

This way I can descend down to my next cut, via my climbing line and have a high tie in point to work around the spar -making my notch, side cuts, eyeing up my backcut and wrapping my false crotch.

I'll leave extra tail on the bight on the bowline so I can loosen the bowline from below. Once the bowline is down to my level, I reset it below my cut (and above my false crotch) and I'm ready to make my back cut.

All this can be accomplished while still tied in with my wirecore.

The bowline on the bite stays tight on the spar in case of a wild ride, or if I have to make a quick descent (animals, bees, etc.)

southsoundtree · Dec 4, 2009

squad143 said:
On a very large diameter spar, I will tie my climbing line to the spar with a bowline on a bight and then attach it to my harness via a fig.8 descender or beeline with a swabish knot.

This way I can descend down to my next cut, via my climbing line and have a high tie in point to work around the spar -making my notch, side cuts, eyeing up my backcut and wrapping my false crotch.

I'll leave extra tail on the bight on the bowline so I can loosen the bowline from below. Once the bowline is down to my level, I reset it below my cut (and above my false crotch) and I'm ready to make my back cut.

All this can be accomplished while still tied in with my wirecore.

The bowline on the bite stays tight on the spar in case of a wild ride, or if I have to make a quick descent (animals, bees, etc.)

Do you mean a Running Bowline, no bowline on a bight?

That is a good system. What are you using to attach to the rope?
I use a GriGri with running bowline.

An adjustable false crotch is a very good system as well. This can be used with a hitch or mechanincal descender like a GriGri.

This AFC system will help to protect the climber if the stem splits. If this happens, the ring will press your friction hitch open enough for the AFC to expand. This system is effective when working a spar with no stubs.

squad143 · Dec 4, 2009

southsoundtree said:
Do you mean a Running Bowline, no bowline on a bight?

What are you using to attach to the rope?

An adjustable false crotch is a very good system as well.
This AFC system will help to protect the climber if the stem splits.QUOTE]

Yes, I meant a running bowline. Thanks for catching that.

I use a fig. 8 with ears to attach rope to harness. I have a lot of 8's and always have one hanging off my saddle. Mechanical descenders work as well.

An AFC would work, but you'd be best to have a line attached to it to pull it down the spar, especially with rough bark. I'm not too worried about the stem splitting. When I'm chunking down pieces, they are usually not long enough to cause a split. If the tree has a defect (split), I'll wrap it with several load binders/ratchet straps.

treesquirrel · Dec 4, 2009

If I am cutting I am tied in twice, one flipline and then a lanyard or with the climbing line.

MillerTreeMN · Dec 4, 2009

if i am going UP in a hurry just a single wire core line.

when i am cutting, i have a second buck strap hanging lower.

when i am topping the tree, i double wrap the secondary buck strap in case my spikes slip i dont have far to go.

SINGLE-JACK · Dec 6, 2009

Tie-In Technique

Plasmech said:
I understand that some guys are comfortable with a single wirecore lanyard as being their sole life-line on a spar during chunking operations. However, what is the proper procedure as far as implementing your climbline as well as the lanyard for extra safety? Hoping to see a good picture of someone lanyarded AND "climblined-in" to the spar. I assume you make two wraps with your climbline and effectively use it as a second lanyard, one that will choke the spar and not slide down should your spikes gaff-out on you? Thanks for any help!

Plas -

Here's a good article & "good picture" that should answer your question":

Tie-In Technique

- Jack

RacerX · Dec 6, 2009

SINGLE-JACK said:
Plas -

Here's a good article & "good picture" that should answer your question":

Tie-In Technique

- Jack

Nice article, does anyone else have some photo's?

southsoundtree · Dec 6, 2009

http://s658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/southsoundtree/?action=view&current=P1030153.jpg

This is working a removal with an adjustable ring and ring, with adjustable prussic ring, false crotch set-up.

The orange end is the large end, so that side goes to the termination on the saddle. The end that is out of view (sorry) is the small ring side with the adjustable prussic-ed ring. This chokes the trunk so you have an emergency lower-out set in case there is the need. You need to keep several inches between rings.

This work with a friction hitch such that if the spar splits, such as when dropping the top, the small ring will depress the top of the friction hitch, which in theory will release it, preventing you from being squished by the expanding spar. As you ascend, you slide your adj. prussic-ed ring side/ small side toward the large side to keep you rings apart. When dropping logs, you can lower off, then slack the system to shake the AFC down, while relying on your spikes and flipline.

RacerX · Dec 7, 2009

SINGLE-JACK said:
Plas -

Here's a good article & "good picture" that should answer your question":

Tie-In Technique

- Jack

Can anyone tell what kind of hitch he has on that tie in point? It looks like a split tail with a hitch of some sort or is it a plain old prusik? I would vote against the prusik because I can only see one attachment point to the saddle.

http://74.220.17.2/pdf/tie-in.pdf

RacerX · Dec 8, 2009

TreeCo said:
It looks like a prussic but the split tail he has it tied in looks like it's a spliced loop. I've heard them called spliced prussic loops and they use to be quite popular. I've got a few in the shop done up with three strand from years ago.

After looking again I believe that you're right. A 3-strand with a long loop on one end for the pruisk and a small eye with a thimble on the other end.

outofmytree · Dec 8, 2009

I posted this somewhere else but I am too lazy to look for the link. This is my usual blocking down set up except I use a different friction hitch now.

If I have any concern about the trunk splitting when the top comes out I use tie down straps rated to 1400kg. If they split I was dead anyway. :greenchainsaw:

southsoundtree · Dec 8, 2009

outofmytree said:
I posted this somewhere else but I am too lazy to look for the link. This is my usual blocking down set up except I use a different friction hitch now.

If I have any concern about the trunk splitting when the top comes out I use tie down straps rated to 1400kg. If they split I was dead anyway. :greenchainsaw:

What friction hitch are you using with Single Rope Technique?
Are you getting extra friction to keep the hitch from locking up by running it along the rope by clipping it inside the pulley, seemingly pinching the rope against the pulley sheave?
Does it allow an emergency descent, or just serve as a second TIP?

Does your knot ever lock up on you portion of the rope that the knot is choking.

scubadude1188 · Dec 8, 2009

Just pop a figure 8 underneath your not and you don't have the problem of the friction hitch locking up. The figure 8 takes enough of the friction to keep the knot working correctly.

SINGLE-JACK · Dec 8, 2009

outofmytree said:
...
This is my usual blocking down set up
...

...

I'm really interested in your lifeline tie-in knot. You're using a TFL which is a cinching knot.

I'm used to a running bowline at line end or a fig 8 on a bite at mid-line.

So, how do you release or 'shake-down' your tie-in when you set-up for your next blocking cut?

outofmytree · Dec 9, 2009

The friction hitch pictured is a version of a french prussik I have experimented with. I am currently using a Schwabisch and like that even more.

Repositioning is quite simple as it is a back up only so the neither the termination knot nor the prussik normally get any weight.

No I don't have any issues with descending srt on this hitch but the prussik needs a lot of loosening afterward.

The advantages I find using this set up is that the loop stays put even on smooth trunks and the hitch is so short if I do go for a ride it will be a much shorter drop than my old rig. Of course no drop at all is best. :laugh:

southsoundtree · Dec 9, 2009

outofmytree said:
The friction hitch pictured is a version of a french prussik I have experimented with. I am currently using a Schwabisch and like that even more.

Repositioning is quite simple as it is a back up only so the neither the termination knot nor the prussik normally get any weight.

No I don't have any issues with descending srt on this hitch but the prussik needs a lot of loosening afterward.

The advantages I find using this set up is that the loop stays put even on smooth trunks and the hitch is so short if I do go for a ride it will be a much shorter drop than my old rig. Of course no drop at all is best.

Ya know how SRT and Friction hitches usually don't work together, so people are using the F8 Revolver to add friction so that the hitch runs smoothly, so how is it working for you? Are you lighter than the average climber?

I use a running bowline and lean into it a lot for work positioning (in addition to a flipline). If I run it around the tree clockwise, then I can lean against it toward the left/ 9 O'clock position. This is where loading it while in the tree made me wonder about that system loosening up/ locking up. Its more compact than a running bowline, as something in its favor.

thoughts? Thanks.

outofmytree · Dec 10, 2009

Locking around a trunk is a GOOD idea especially a leaner. This rig works great for that. Descending SRT on a friction hitch of any sort is going to test prussik cord for sure. I rate this rig about 6/10 for descending and 8/10 for all other work. I am experimenting with a Schwabisch 'cos I would like 10/10 all round!

At 85kg I doubt I am lighter than average just lighter than StihloMatic

being double tied into a spar question

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