lifting a limb

abidingdreams · Sep 6, 2013

When you come into a situation where a limb needs to be tip tied and lifted to avoid hitting an object below how do you get enough force to lift it? The object that is in question is a power line and I'm nervous that if I weren't to lift, but instead cut and let it swing, That it would still swing into the power line. The rigging equipment I currently have is a portawrap, cmi 3/4 inch block, one loopie sling and a dead eye sling. With a 3/4 inch Husky bull rope. Ive thought about running the rope through the block attached up in the tree down to a truck and making the notch cut on top back cut and slowly lifting limb with truck. That seems kind of ghetto to me so I was looking for other ideas. Thank you in advance for your advice

Carburetorless · Sep 6, 2013

opcorn:

Del_ · Sep 6, 2013

abidingdreams said:
When you come into a situation where a limb needs to be tip tied and lifted to avoid hitting an object below how do you get enough force to lift it? The object that is in question is a power line and I'm nervous that if I weren't to lift, but instead cut and let it swing, That it would still swing into the power line. The rigging equipment I currently have is a portawrap, cmi 3/4 inch block, one loopie sling and a dead eye sling. With a 3/4 inch Husky bull rope. Ive thought about running the rope through the block attached up in the tree down to a truck and making the notch cut on top back cut and slowly lifting limb with truck. That seems kind of ghetto to me so I was looking for other ideas. Thank you in advance for your advice

You are way out of your league and your life is at stake. That kind of work is done by certified line clearance workers using insulated tools and insulated lifts which are inspected regularly.

abidingdreams · Sep 6, 2013

Del_ said:
You are way out of your league and your life is at stake. That kind of work is done by certified line clearance workers using insulated tools and insulated lifts which are inspected regularly.

That is very good advice and this is a more hypothetical question. I reason for that is because I bid a job about two months ago and was just now getting ready to start. I had to call the HO and say that in order for me to do the tree I would need extensive crane work, seeing that my experience didn't allow for me to take it down safely. I had to raise my estimate, which in turn probably lost me the job. All that being said I don't stop thinking about the situations that I will more than likely run into in the future. I have purchased advanced rigging books and plan on further research to gain a better understanding of these types of jobs. I cant turn down every job because of hazards, I am a tree cutter after all and all trees come with their fair share of hazards. But I do know what is over my head though. Thank you again for the advice but still curious on how to create enough force to get a horizontal limb to stand vertically

Pelorus · Sep 6, 2013

abidingdreams said:
still curious on how to create enough force to get a horizontal limb to stand vertically

Just tip tie it. As soon as you cut it, gravity will create enough force.
You may want to practice on small limbs so you don't break any of your limbs.

BC WetCoast · Sep 7, 2013

If you don't have a GRCS, you can use a winch/fiddle blocks in combination with your port'a'wrap.

Put the winch/fiddle blocks between the whoopie (or however you attach the porti to the tree) and the porti. Tie your rigging line off at the porti and leave it up in the air the same distance as you want to pull the top over. When you put the notch in the limb, pull on the winch/fiddle block which will pull the porti down and the tip of the branch into a vertical position. When it is high enough, lower using the porti.

Limbrat · Sep 7, 2013

If it's primary voltage, or open wire secondary (non-insulated), you need to pass. Insulated secondary and service drops are a whole different ball game. If you don't know the difference, call your power company. If it's a service wire and you can't work around it, most companies will drop them while you remove the tree at no charge.

chief116 · Sep 7, 2013

abidingdreams said:
That is very good advice and this is a more hypothetical question. I reason for that is because I bid a job about two months ago and was just now getting ready to start. I had to call the HO and say that in order for me to do the tree I would need extensive crane work, seeing that my experience didn't allow for me to take it down safely. I had to raise my estimate, which in turn probably lost me the job. All that being said I don't stop thinking about the situations that I will more than likely run into in the future. I have purchased advanced rigging books and plan on further research to gain a better understanding of these types of jobs. I cant turn down every job because of hazards, I am a tree cutter after all and all trees come with their fair share of hazards. But I do know what is over my head though. Thank you again for the advice but still curious on how to create enough force to get a horizontal limb to stand vertically

If tip tying is over your head, you might want to try hiring an experienced climber.

lone wolf · Sep 7, 2013

abidingdreams said:
When you come into a situation where a limb needs to be tip tied and lifted to avoid hitting an object below how do you get enough force to lift it? The object that is in question is a power line and I'm nervous that if I weren't to lift, but instead cut and let it swing, That it would still swing into the power line. The rigging equipment I currently have is a portawrap, cmi 3/4 inch block, one loopie sling and a dead eye sling. With a 3/4 inch Husky bull rope. Ive thought about running the rope through the block attached up in the tree down to a truck and making the notch cut on top back cut and slowly lifting limb with truck. That seems kind of ghetto to me so I was looking for other ideas. Thank you in advance for your advice

220 or 7200?

Pelorus · Sep 7, 2013

abidingdreams said:
Ive thought about running the rope through the block attached up in the tree down to a truck and making the notch cut on top back cut and slowly lifting limb with truck. That seems kind of ghetto to me so I was looking for other ideas. Thank you in advance for your advice

In all seriousness, the ghetto method can work quite well, (depending on tree species and condition) although I use a capstan winch and not a vehicle. And I would not even remotely consider doing this in proximity to high voltage conductors.

Went to a Vermeer/Sherrill open house demo day thingy awhile back, and the instructor demonstrated lifting a tip-tied limb by tediously making long horizontal parallel cuts. (The backcut was horizontal to the ground). It looked both complicated and horribly time-consuming. Anything that makes a complicated job more complicated is something that needs to be really excellent to be worthwhile, imo.

abidingdreams · Sep 7, 2013

Limbrat said:
If it's primary voltage, or open wire secondary (non-insulated), you need to pass. Insulated secondary and service drops are a whole different ball game. If you don't know the difference, call your power company. If it's a service wire and you can't work around it, most companies will drop them while you remove the tree at no charge.

Its a open secondary wire, and that is the reason why I passed.

chief116 said:
If tip tying is over your head, you might want to try hiring an experienced climber.

Its not that tip tying is over my head but Im not efficient enough at it to be doing such a complicated job. Plus if I don't increase my knowledge and understanding of some more advanced techniques I will be hiring out all my work for the rest of my life and to be honest I love climbing far to much to be doing that.

Also I want to thank everyone else for their excellent advice and I really appreciate your time.

capetrees · Sep 7, 2013

I was workling around an open wire secondary, 14K, last month or so and paid the price and I'm lucky to be alive to tell about it. Never again. Just walk away and don't F with power. This never should have happened, completely my fault, just being stupid.

As ar as tip tying or upward force, I usually try to cut it in smaller pieces and that way a ground guy can usually lift the limb without too much trouble. Or try to cut it and have gravity swing the branch or limb where you want it to go. Every siuation is different but STAY AWAY FROM POWER.

chief116 · Sep 7, 2013

abidingdreams said:
Its a open secondary wire, and that is the reason why I passed.

Its not that tip tying is over my head but Im not efficient enough at it to be doing such a complicated job. Plus if I don't increase my knowledge and understanding of some more advanced techniques I will be hiring out all my work for the rest of my life and to be honest I love climbing far to much to be doing that.

Also I want to thank everyone else for their excellent advice and I really appreciate your time.

You're a business owner, correct? There's nothing wrong with hiring a guy you can learn from. Watching a guy do it from 10 feet away is a better way to learn than asking for advice on an internet forum every time you run into a potential hazard.

How long is the limb, what kind of tree, how high above the primaries? Is it a brittle species that'll snap as soon as the saw hits it? Is the limb fat enough to notch and stand upright as you undercut. An experienced climber on your staff can show you what to do for those situations that come up.

Limbrat · Sep 7, 2013

capetrees said:
I was workling around an open wire secondary, 14K, last month or so and paid the price and I'm lucky to be alive to tell about it. Never again. Just walk away and don't F with power. This never should have happened, completely my fault, just being stupid.

As ar as tip tying or upward force, I usually try to cut it in smaller pieces and that way a ground guy can usually lift the limb without too much trouble. Or try to cut it and have gravity swing the branch or limb where you want it to go. Every siuation is different but STAY AWAY FROM POWER.

Most open wire secondary is 120/240v. !4kV is a LONG way from secondary. About 14,000 volts to be exact.

capetrees · Sep 7, 2013

I asked the power company and a few electricians around here. Not the big power bringing in the power to the town buit the secondary power, prior to the transformers.

lone wolf · Sep 7, 2013

abidingdreams said:
When you come into a situation where a limb needs to be tip tied and lifted to avoid hitting an object below how do you get enough force to lift it? The object that is in question is a power line and I'm nervous that if I weren't to lift, but instead cut and let it swing, That it would still swing into the power line. The rigging equipment I currently have is a portawrap, cmi 3/4 inch block, one loopie sling and a dead eye sling. With a 3/4 inch Husky bull rope. Ive thought about running the rope through the block attached up in the tree down to a truck and making the notch cut on top back cut and slowly lifting limb with truck. That seems kind of ghetto to me so I was looking for other ideas. Thank you in advance for your advice

Just stay away from it. That stuff kills.

lone wolf · Sep 7, 2013

[video=youtube;8IGOsDBlP0s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IGOsDBlP0s[/video]

Grace Tree · Sep 7, 2013

capetrees said:
I was workling around an open wire secondary, 14K, last month or so and paid the price and I'm lucky to be alive to tell about it. Never again. Just walk away and don't F with power. This never should have happened, completely my fault, just being stupid.

As ar as tip tying or upward force, I usually try to cut it in smaller pieces and that way a ground guy can usually lift the limb without too much trouble. Or try to cut it and have gravity swing the branch or limb where you want it to go. Every siuation is different but STAY AWAY FROM POWER.

We were taking down a silver maple today and I cut a branch tip and swung it into an open wire secondary. For a very painful moment I was part of the grid. If it hadn't been for near ideal conditions I'm certain I would have been hurt pretty badly or worse. I don't know what the voltage is. Power guys have told me 2K. We call them back yard top wires or mean green because of the color. Not common where I normally work but I've seen enough of them to treat them like a killer. Like Capetrees, it was completely stupid and my fault. It's a bad deal to get tired and careless.
Phil

Del_ · Sep 7, 2013

Grace Tree said:
We were taking down a silver maple today and I cut a branch tip and swung it into an open wire secondary. For a very painful moment I was part of the grid. If it hadn't been for near ideal conditions I'm certain I would have been hurt pretty badly or worse. I don't know what the voltage is. Power guys have told me 2K. We call them back yard top wires or mean green because of the color. Not common where I normally work but I've seen enough of them to treat them like a killer. Like Capetrees, it was completely stupid and my fault. It's a bad deal to get tired and careless.
Phil

I've never heard of primaries being as low a 2KV. More like 10kv.

Here's a good video showing electrical fires spreading house to house. Better have your insurance paid up!

http://youtu.be/KM1snQAh8a0

futbalfantic · Sep 7, 2013

So let's ignore the power lines and say a basket of kittens that cannot be moved. Would: A hinge on the top of the limb with the back cut on the underside. The branch tip tied with a block high enough to close the angle then down to a porty. Between the porty and block use mech adv and take up slack on the porty until the hinge closes and breaks the hinge :work?

lifting a limb

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