Depth Gauges on a Grinder?

Philbert · May 14, 2012

I usually file the depth gauges, even when sharpening the chain with a grinder. It always seemed easier than setting up a new wheel, etc., especially, if I still had to round profile the front edge with a file afterwards.

But lately, I have been working through a large pile of chains: cleaning, repairing, adjusting loop lengths, sharpening, etc., and have been doing them in batches. I have a pile of about 20 chains to check/adjust depth gauges on, so it seems like a good time to try the grinder.

Any tips, tricks, or insight on this, beyond what is in the Oregon 511A owner's manual?

Thanks in advance.

Philbert

Fish · May 14, 2012

I have to admit, when the chain I sharpen needs the depth gauges/drags adjusted, I just do it by sight. After I am done sharpening, I just tap the drag against the side of the wheel, then measure, then if it is right, I tap each drag against the wheel an equal amount all of the way around, using my ears and eyes. Everyone is happy.......

Of course the gang here will be twisting by their panties!!!!

watsonr · May 14, 2012

Curious to see what they say. I just got a 511AX and am retiring the older grinder to do rakers. My plan was to shape the wheel to be similar to actual shape and grind'em down. Should be able to measure how high they are and set the wheel. Grind all of them to that setting and move to the next chain, measure and grind away! Once set on the correct position of the head unit, should just have to change the height.

flyboy · May 14, 2012

I have the tecomec jolly star. I ALWAYS grind the rakers.

This is how I do it:

Set the grinder to 80 degrees (instead of 60 for the cutters).
Set the vise to 0 degrees (instead of +/- 30 for the cutters).
Install chain in vise. Install 0.25" flat wheel.
Take a piece of flat steel and lay it across the cutters along the length of the chain.
Use a 0.030" feeler gauge between the raker and the flat stock.
Lower the depth stop as necessary to make the gap between the flat stock and the raker 0.030".
Once the depth stop is set, grind all left and right side rakers.

I do not do any smoothing or rolling other than the 10 degree slope that is left on the raker.
I have incredible results. I always get a chain that outperforms brand new chain (I have tried Stihl, Carlton, and Oregon chain).
I always use Boelube on the wheel, whether grinding or setting the rakers. I sharpen all my chains, then change wheels and set the rakers.

The size and consistency of the chips that come off a chain sharpened in this manner cannot be overstated. You get huge chips and a smooth, fast chain.

When you use Boelube on the wheel, and just kiss the cutter, you do not blue or overheat the cutter.

galde · May 14, 2012

The height adjustment for the wheel serves very well as a micrometer to control the grind of the depth gauges. I have a Tecomec that I calibrated by noting the change in wheel height for a given rotation of the adjustment knob. Mine came out to 0.005" for each groove on the knob. I attached a pointer ( a length of the tiny red tube that comes with a brake cleaner can ) by taping it to the lower knob that provides friction to the height adj. knob. After sharpening a chain I clamp a tooth in the vise with the top plate centered under the flat edged wheel. I back out the adjuster knob and bring the wheel (at rest, of course) down to rest on the tooth. While holding the wheel on the tooth I screw in the adjuster knob until I just pick up off the tooth. The wheel should just barely contact the tooth when the normal bottoming force is applied to the handle. This sets the "zero" for the depth gauge grind. I then sight my pointer onto the knob ridge (or groove, whichever is closer) and crank off increments of 0.005" by backing out the knob until I set the desired depth. After grinding the left gauges I reverse the chain to grind the right gauges. I then use a Dremel with a cut-off wheel to radius the front corners as needed. I am confident that I can grind all depth gauges to within + or - a couple thousandths, which makes for really smooth cutting.

Dan_IN_MN · May 14, 2012

flyboy said:
I have the tecomec jolly star. I ALWAYS grind the rakers.

This is how I do it:

Set the grinder to 80 degrees (instead of 60 for the cutters).
Set the vise to 0 degrees (instead of +/- 30 for the cutters).
Install chain in vise. Install 0.25" flat wheel.
Take a piece of flat steel and lay it across the cutters along the length of the chain.
Use a 0.030" feeler gauge between the raker and the flat stock.
Lower the depth stop as necessary to make the gap between the flat stock and the raker 0.030".
Once the depth stop is set, grind all left and right side rakers.

I do not do any smoothing or rolling other than the 10 degree slope that is left on the raker.
I have incredible results. I always get a chain that outperforms brand new chain (I have tried Stihl, Carlton, and Oregon chain).
I always use Boelube on the wheel, whether grinding or setting the rakers. I sharpen all my chains, then change wheels and set the rakers.

The size and consistency of the chips that come off a chain sharpened in this manner cannot be overstated. You get huge chips and a smooth, fast chain.

When you use Boelube on the wheel, and just kiss the cutter, you do not blue or overheat the cutter.

I'm missing the purpose of flat steel. How does adding the thickness of the steel aid in setting the grinding wheel depth? Sounds like it works for you so I'm probably not up to speed.

EDIT****** I think I just figured it out.....

You're using the bottom surface of the flat steel?

Philbert · May 14, 2012

Below, are the instructions from the Oregon 511A manual, edited for readability. These are similar, but not the same as Flyboy's - notably the different head tilt angle.

- Mount the 1/4" grinding wheel.

- Set the grinder head tilt angle at 60 degrees.

- Set the vise rotation angle at 0 degrees.

- Place the dressing brick on top of the chain vise, then lower the wheel onto the grinding brick to form a 60 degree bevel in the edge of the wheel.

- Use the chain stop to center the depth gauge under the grinding wheel.

- Use a standard depth gauge tool and hand file to set the first depth gauge.

- Lower the grinding wheel so that it touches the filed depth gauge, and set the depth adjustment stop.

- Grind all of the depth gauges.

- Use a hand file to round the front of each depth gauge so that it matches its original profle.

Philbert.

flyboy · May 14, 2012

manyhobies said:
I'm missing the purpose of flat steel. How does adding the thickness of the steel aid in setting the grinding wheel depth? Sounds like it works for you so I'm probably not up to speed.

EDIT****** I think I just figured it out.....

You're using the bottom surface of the flat steel?

Correct. I just need a reference point for the top of the cutters.

Philbert · May 14, 2012

galde said:
. . . After grinding the left gauges I reverse the chain to grind the right gauges . . .

That is an interesting point. Oregon is very clear to only file depth gauges from 'the inside out', but the grinder manual appears to say to grind them all the same way.

Philbert

Philbert · May 14, 2012

manyhobies said:
You're using the bottom surface of the flat steel?

flyboy said:
Correct. I just need a reference point for the top of the cutters.

Flyboy is just doing that instead of using a depth gauge gauge.

Philbert

Dan_IN_MN · May 14, 2012

Philbert said:
Below, are the instructions from the Oregon 511A manual, edited for readability. These are similar, but not the same as Flyboy's - notably the different head tilt angle.

- Mount the 1/4" grinding wheel.

- Set the grinder head tilt angle at 60 degrees.

- Set the vise rotation angle at 0 degrees.

- Place the dressing brick on top of the chain vise, then lower the wheel onto the grinding brick to form a 60 degree bevel in the edge of the wheel.

- Use the chain stop to center the depth gauge under the grinding wheel.

- Use a standard depth gauge tool and hand file to set the first depth gauge.

- Lower the grinding wheel so that it touches the filed depth gauge, and set the depth adjustment stop.

- Grind all of the depth gauges.

- Use a hand file to round the front of each depth gauge so that it matches its original profle.

Philbert.

5 more posts and you've hit the 4 grand!

Dan_IN_MN · May 14, 2012

I grind the cutters. Find the top of the cutter height with the grinding wheel by setting the stop. Then I lower the wheel just a bit by eye (~.030). I know I should reshape the gauge but so far so good.

lmbrman · May 14, 2012

manyhobies said:
I grind the cutters. Find the top of the cutter height with the grinding wheel by setting the stop. Then I lower the wheel just a bit by eye (~.030). I know I should reshape the gauge but so far so good.

+1

watsonr · May 14, 2012

Anybody shape the wheel to match a the raker profile? Taking the time to radius the raker back to factory profile of rounded for the leading edge takes extra time and extra steps. A couple of strokes on the file to set the raker and sweep the file forward as you finish the stroke may be faster in this case because of the added steps.

Anybody bring the grinder straight down on the back side of the raker to remove the trailing edge? It would remove having to re-due the rounded profile of the leading edge. It would increase the distance between cutter and probably reduce the amount you have to actually take off the raker. The grinding wheel would also be at the correct angle to grind the gullets.

Anybody grinding gullets and rakers with a similar set-up?

ClyderGerman · May 14, 2012

I just do it by sight. After I am done sharpening

fearofpavement · May 14, 2012

I was thinking today of starting a thread regarding this question but it should fit here fine. I am wondering if there is any reason one of the Harbor Freight cheapo grinders couldn't do a decent job on rakers? Some here are using the crank type chain sharpener that uses the carbide cutters but it doesn't shorten the rakers so that has to be done by some other means. So I was thinking HF grinder at about $30 may do a decent job. What thinks thee?

galde · May 14, 2012

Philbert said:
That is an interesting point. Oregon is very clear to only file depth gauges from 'the inside out', but the grinder manual appears to say to grind them all the same way.

Philbert

The older grinders were reversible, but OSHA and UL put an end to that. I don't like the sound and feel of the chatter that comes with grinding into anything, especially an object that is not held securly in a vise. The grinder vise grips the drive links only, so for an older, worn chain the tooth itself is subject to moving when the grinder contacts it. People have posted on here how their wheels exploded when they went from grinding the left teeth to the right teeth on the new non-reversing grinders. My rationalle for doing a flat grind and not a slanted grind on the depth gauges is that the gauges have to perform like sled runners, which are always flat except for the front end which is radiused. Think of a sled compared to the travois (sp?) used by Native Americans for freight transport. Also, grinding flat on the depth gauge achieves the same results without requiring precise placement of the tooth in the vise. With a slanted grind any variation in the tooth's placement left or right will change the height of the depth gauge. I once offered to submit to Oregon my improved procedure for their manual's treatment of depth gauge grinding, but they were not interested.

paccity · May 14, 2012

watsonr said:
Anybody shape the wheel to match a the raker profile? Taking the time to radius the raker back to factory profile of rounded for the leading edge takes extra time and extra steps. A couple of strokes on the file to set the raker and sweep the file forward as you finish the stroke may be faster in this case because of the added steps.

Anybody bring the grinder straight down on the back side of the raker to remove the trailing edge? It would remove having to re-due the rounded profile of the leading edge. It would increase the distance between cutter and probably reduce the amount you have to actually take off the raker. The grinding wheel would also be at the correct angle to grind the gullets.

Anybody grinding gullets and rakers with a similar set-up?

yes something likeyour sayin. can make short noddles a cross the grain. i use this old grinder for that and the old bell for my square.

Dan_IN_MN · May 14, 2012

Talking about improvements, I'd like to see progressive lines on the depth gauges that corresponds to lines on the tooth. If the tooth is ground back to the first of 3 lines the depth gauge needs to be lowered to the first of 3 lines.

Anyone understand what I'm trying to get at here? Thoughts?

stihl 440 · May 14, 2012

FLAT FILE...steady hand, pressure, same length of stroke each time...simple.

Depth Gauges on a Grinder?

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