Elm this, and Elm that...

[Wood Doctor]

Everybody hates the way elm splits green because then it's stringy as all get out. That's because they don't let the rounds sit for awhile and until the bark falls off. So I just noticed something about my wood pile today. The elm rounds I cut in the spring have checked up on the ends and I can easily remove the bark.

Hi Ho, Hi Ho
It's off to the splitter I go.
The bark falls off, elm should split clean,
Hi Ho, Hi Ho!

 

[benp]

Ben, the top pics are definitely red or pin (red family) oak.

Those bottom pics look almost like ash. Do you have a pic of the end grain?

You were correct on the ash.

Big black ash.

The standing part was rotted and 10 feet of the downed trunk was too.

Managed a full load out of it though

 

[svk]

Don't get your hopes up that this is rock elm. That is as scarce as hen's teeth. Red elm has also become scarce around here, and I always welcome American elm whenever I find it. The dutch elm disease almost wiped them both out some 40 to 50 years ago.

I like this quote from Whitespider, "Siberian Elm and Red Elm are known to readily hybridize in the natural wild."

I believe I have run into this on a couple of occasions and perhaps recently.

I found a good sized stand of Siberian elm near my house and there's a noticeable difference between the Siberian bark and that of the trees near my cabin. I'll find out for sure next week.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Today I delivered a truckload of mixed hardwoods, About 60% was elm, either Siberian or American. The rest was maple, ash, walnut, and mystery wood that was as dense as locust but not locust. It had the same color as oak, but the coarse grain was more like locust and that makes it a fast growing tree. Nobody knows what it is. The tree was down before I cut it up and the leaves were already shredded by the tree removal company. I'll try to get pics of the logs. It splits nicely when green.

Regardless, the customer said the mixture I supplied was superb. He loves burning mixed hardwoods and agrees that good elm is almost impossible to beat for a fireplace -- no sparks, no cinders, etc. etc.

 

[svk]

Today I delivered a truckload of mixed hardwoods, About 60% was elm, either Siberian or American. The rest was maple, ash, walnut, and mystery wood that was as dense as locust but not locust. It had the same color as oak, but the coarse grain was more like locust and that makes it a fast growing tree. Nobody knows what it is. The tree was down before I cut it up and the leaves were already shredded by the tree removal company. I'll try to get pics of the logs. It splits nicely when green.

Regardless, the customer said the mixture I supplied was superb. He loves burning mixed hardwoods and agrees that good elm is almost impossible to beat for a fireplace -- no sparks, no cinders, etc. etc.

I do like how elm, at least American burns completely silent too.

 

[Ranchers-son]

@Whitespider im in north central Oklahoma and a American elm in my FIL's yard just died last spring , leaved out then all leaves just fell off. My question is what are the signs of ded?

 

[svk]

I checked the one stand and found more larger trees with the same bark. Didn't have time to drop one yet.

 

[Wood Doctor]

@Whitespider im in north central Oklahoma and a American elm in my FIL's yard just died last spring , leaved out then all leaves just fell off. My question is what are the signs of ded?

We have watched birch trees behave exactly the same way around here for several years. They leaf out fine the previous years and then die suddenly the next. I just cut one down for a customer, dead as a hammer. There were small branches all over the place but with no leaves at all in any part of the tree. The branch wood showed no moisture and will be used for firewood and kindling. Two years ago it was judged alive.

 

[svk]

As an update my mystery elms do have a quite rough leaf on the upper side. Sort of like a cats tongue but not as rough. Is rock the only species that has this?

 

[Ranchers-son]

This elm was alive and well in the spring not a dead limb on it then all the leaves fell off by summer.

 

[Whitespider]

My question is what are the signs of ded?

Usually I see one side of the tree die one year and the other side the next year.

As an update my mystery elms do have a quite rough leaf on the upper side. Sort of like a cats tongue but not as rough. Is rock the only species that has this?

I've never felt a cats tongue so that description don't help me.

Red Elm has really rough leaves... like 60 grit sandpaper.
American Elm can have smooth or rough leaves... but not as rough as Red Elm.
Rock Elm leaves are sort'a shiny on top... it's been a few years but I don't remember Rock Elm having rough leaves.
*

 

[svk]

The beaver had knocked down one of these trees so I didn't need to. Judging by how little he took I'm assuming he didn't like it.

This stuff is very heavy. Cuts very slowly and throws more slivers (like red oak) than actual chips. Cuts smell like fresh dog poop.

This 4" split took 7 full power hits from my Husky S2800 axe which is significantly more powerful than a Fiskars but did yield finally.



So I'm noticing the alternating light and dark bark as well......

 

[Ranchers-son]

@Whitespider thanks for responding. I did some research and think "elm yellows " may have killed it.

 

[Whitespider]

So I'm noticing the alternating light and dark bark as well......

Those creamy-white layers in the bark leave no doubt... it's American Elm.
Just goes to show how difficult it is to identify a tree by its outer bark appearance.

I did some research and think "elm yellows " may have killed it.

Could very well be...
*

 

[svk]

Well there you have it!

I'm assuming the crappy smell of the wet wood is just a function of what kind of soil this was in? The other AE I've cut in other areas smelled kind of sweet.

 

[GVS]

@Whitespider im in north central Oklahoma and a American elm in my FIL's yard just died last spring , leaved out then all leaves just fell off. My question is what are the signs of ded?

I experianced the same thing with an elm several years ago.Leafed out in the spring,looked great.End of June ,early July,leaves dropped and the tree looked like November.I thought this is going to be tough splitting.Nope,split as easy as maple!

 

[svk]

I have a chance to get ahold of a 12-14" diameter Chinese elm log to test the Isocore maul in. Is this stuff tough to split? Looking for a challenge to test the new maul.

 

[lindnova]

Chinese or Siberian? Never split Chinese, but Siberian is usually fairly stringy, not as bad as American, but should be a good test.

 

[svk]

Chinese

 

[redheadwoodshed]

The nickname of piss elm is a derogatory term that seems to get placed on just about any type of elm, depending on region or local custom. Around here it is often applied to young, small diameter elm that have lots of water in them when cut. I here the term piss elm quite often in the spring/early summer when the ground is wet and the trees are "waking-up" from winter sleep. The thing is that as summer, and dryer weather progresses those same trees won't have near the water in them and the term will die-out until the next spring. Sometimes those young, wet trees will have an odor (described as cat pee) which seems to support the nickname... although, I personally have never thought it smelled like cat urine, and never use the nickname because it does nothing to identify the elm species.

There is one elm that grows in the south, east of Texas, that (from what I've read) has a strong urine-like odor that can be smelled even without cutting... a position down wind from a stand can be a bit offensive. It is the Winged Elm (or Wahoo), a small tree considered a nuisance in many areas because it will "pop-up" in cleared areas and is difficult to get rid of. It is believed that this is the "original" piss elm... and that makes the most sense. Actually we have a few Winged Elm in extreme southeast Iowa along the Mississippi... I've seen it a couple of times but never noticed any odor (that I remember). A strange looking tree that has funky "wing-like" things growing on it... almost resembling some sort of mushroom or fungus.

In north Louisiana we have a lot of winged elm(ulmus alata) it smells like somebody pissed on the fire when you burn it, it is twisty kinda like sweetgum(liquedamber styraciflua) but much harder. Hence the expression "harder than a piss elum club". Cheers!