Fuel stabilizer for chain saw

[John R]

I always run Sta-Bil in my mix. I just never know how long it will be until I use the two strokes again with my work schedule and all. Its pretty cheap insurance.

+1

I mix Sta-Bil, and my oil in when I buy gas.
I do the same for all my 4 stroke yard equipment.

 

[Streblerm]

I use the marine formula Stabil because it takes less than the regular formula. I figure that way I'm not displacing as much fuel in the mix and throwing the ratio out of whack. I use it in all my OPE fuel and in my truck since I don't put a lot of miles on it and often times I use the gas from the truck's tank in the OPE.

 

[Marc]

Can't get anything except 10% ethanol fuel around here. I use a product called Ethanol Shield, on recommendation of my local Husky dealer, and seems to have worked well so far.

 

[Boogieman142]

have never used any stabilizer in anything I've owned. My neighbor does and I'm always fixing his carbs. If its been sitting for a little while then it gets dumped. I also use ethanol free tho.

 

[Vibes]

Can't get anything except 10% ethanol fuel around here. I use a product called Ethanol Shield, on recommendation of my local Husky dealer, and seems to have worked well so far.

Many products out there now for the same reason. My J-Red dealer sells another brand that I can't remember the name. The orange Stabil I think is being phased out by the blue Stabil because people like blue better than orange. Same stuff!! But I think people are still thinking the old red Stabil is the same as the Marine grade stuff and its not.

 

[reaperman]

I use Sta-Bil in the portable generator and swap out the fuel every 12-months. Even so, the last 6-gallons went bad in less than 6-months... put fresh, non-ethanol, 91-octane with Sta-Bil added in it last July and when I tried a test run in December the fuel had soured (it seemed fine in October).
The only time I use Sta-Bil in other 4-cycle power equipment is when I put them away for the season (fill 'em up with Sta-Bil treated fuel)... the stuff I run year round never gets it.

How do you test to see if the gas has soured?

 

[Whitespider]

How do you test to see if the gas has soured?

You haven't read all the posts in this thread... have you?
Check out post #17 on this page.

 

[WidowMaker]

SeaFoam is not a fuel stabilizer, it’s a fuel treatment that lubricates moving parts, absorbs free water, dissolves gum/varnish, and slightly raises the octane rating of fuel… but it will not “stabilize” (retard the oxidation process).

SeaFoam contains just three things…

1. Pale Oil (mineral oil)
2. Naphtha (lighter fluid)
3. Isopropyl Alcohol

SeaFoam is the most effective when used after the fuel has gone bad and the carb has gummed/varnished up. Say, for example, you left the fuel tank of your mower half full over winter, the fuel went bad and the carb gummed up… now it won’t start. Often you can dump the old fuel, put a healthy dose of SeaFoam and fresh fuel in it, pull it/crank it over a few times to distribute the mix, dump a little straight SeaFoam directly in the air intake of the carb, and let it sit overnight. The next day put a new plug in it and you probably have an 80% chance it will start after a few pulls/cranks… let it run for a while to finish “cleaning up” the carb, then change oil. I knew a guy that ran a small engine repair shop for years… in the spring, when people would bring in their mowers because they wouldn’t start, that was his standard “spring tune-up” (along with sharpening blades). I don’t remember what he charged, but he told me he saved more time and made more money doing that, rather than pulling carburetors… heck, he could “fix” and tune-up over a dozen mowers and garden tillers a day that way (he did the same thing with snow blowers in the fall).

Actually you can make your own SeaFoam if you want… just mix 5 parts mineral oil (or automatic transmission oil) with 3 parts lighter fluid (or even camp stove fuel) and 2 parts isopropyl alcohol (approximate for all three, it don’t have to be exact). Heck, a couple of years ago dad’s tiller wouldn’t start... the fuel in the tank was plain rancid. I dumped it and poured in fresh fuel but it still wouldn’t start. I couldn’t find the can of SeaFoam I was sure I had, so I just dumped in some tranny oil, lighter fluid and isopropyl with out measuring… all by guess-and-b’gosh. It surprised the heck out’a me when it fired up on the fifth pull the next day… smoked like crazy for a couple minutes and settled right in.

But it can not “stabilize” fuel… it does not contain an oxidation inhibitor.

======

According to my can of Sea Foam, you would be mistaken about that...

 

[PEKS]

I winterized all my Stihl Kit with STIHL MotoMix® (pre-mixed non-ethanol, 92 octane fuel & STIHL HP Ultra Oil)..
Saws really do not get much down time..

 

[allstihl]

i take care of all the small engines at work as well as my stuff. since ive started added marine stabil to the gas as soon as its bought ive had allmost no problems.

 

[Whitespider]

According to my can of Sea Foam, you would be mistaken about that...

According to your can of Sea Foam, it does a lot of things...
Anybody wanna' place bets on how many of them they guarantee?

 

[Nickolas]

SeaFoam is not a fuel stabilizer, it’s a fuel treatment that lubricates moving parts, absorbs free water, dissolves gum/varnish, and slightly raises the octane rating of fuel… but it will not “stabilize” (retard the oxidation process).

SeaFoam contains just three things…

1. Pale Oil (mineral oil)
2. Naphtha (lighter fluid)
3. Isopropyl Alcohol

SeaFoam is the most effective when used after the fuel has gone bad and the carb has gummed/varnished up. Say, for example, you left the fuel tank of your mower half full over winter, the fuel went bad and the carb gummed up… now it won’t start. Often you can dump the old fuel, put a healthy dose of SeaFoam and fresh fuel in it, pull it/crank it over a few times to distribute the mix, dump a little straight SeaFoam directly in the air intake of the carb, and let it sit overnight. The next day put a new plug in it and you probably have an 80% chance it will start after a few pulls/cranks… let it run for a while to finish “cleaning up” the carb, then change oil. I knew a guy that ran a small engine repair shop for years… in the spring, when people would bring in their mowers because they wouldn’t start, that was his standard “spring tune-up” (along with sharpening blades). I don’t remember what he charged, but he told me he saved more time and made more money doing that, rather than pulling carburetors… heck, he could “fix” and tune-up over a dozen mowers and garden tillers a day that way (he did the same thing with snow blowers in the fall).

Actually you can make your own SeaFoam if you want… just mix 5 parts mineral oil (or automatic transmission oil) with 3 parts lighter fluid (or even camp stove fuel) and 2 parts isopropyl alcohol (approximate for all three, it don’t have to be exact). Heck, a couple of years ago dad’s tiller wouldn’t start... the fuel in the tank was plain rancid. I dumped it and poured in fresh fuel but it still wouldn’t start. I couldn’t find the can of SeaFoam I was sure I had, so I just dumped in some tranny oil, lighter fluid and isopropyl with out measuring… all by guess-and-b’gosh. It surprised the heck out’a me when it fired up on the fifth pull the next day… smoked like crazy for a couple minutes and settled right in.

But it can not “stabilize” fuel… it does not contain an oxidation inhibitor.

I have to disagree with you on Sea Foam. It is an excellent fuel stabilizer and is also used to fog engines for seasonal storage as well as a carbon cleaner. I have been using and selling it for years and it is a great product. I have talked in depth with a man that worked at the company for over 40 years and backs it up 100%. When I worked in Auto parts we couldn't keep it on the shelves. Same thing with PB Blaster if anyone is familiar with that product. It is an excellent penetrant and water disperser among many other uses. As for sea foam I have been using it for years and it has never let me down. I have always recommended it for many uses and use it every season for boating as well as the chain saw. I don't know anyone that will disagree with me on Sea Foam. People always talk about how great it is and I totally agree. One of the best chemicals on the shelf alongside PB Blaster.

Nick

 

[cheeves]

I just started using StarTron. Read a lot of reviews and many good ones. The flyer that the cashier gave me said it can keep gas fresh up to 2 years. Online I've read a year or more. $5.99(Oreillys) for 8 ounces and 1 ounce treats 6 gal. and is rated for E10. I'll use it on all my lawn and garden engines and both Dolmars. I can still get ethanol free gas here local but if that disappears I'll try it on E10.

Asked if they stocked Startron at Oreillys and the gal said they didn't carry it. When I said chainsaws she said wait a minute. They had it stored behind the counter with the Stihl 2 stroke oil mix.

Startron's great stuff!! Sten rep turned me onto it about 5 years ago. Before that had trouble with all my Husqvarna chainsaws.. Now all OK!!!
If Govt goes to 15% Ethanol going to the local airport though for chainsaw gas!!!

 

[WidowMaker]

According to your can of Sea Foam, it does a lot of things...
Anybody wanna' place bets on how many of them they guarantee?

=====


I'll go with my can...

 

[Whitespider]

You mean the can that says “Stabilizes fuel for up to two years”? Really? Two years? Are you “going” with that?

Listen; if gasoline (non-oxygenated gasoline) is stored properly it could theoretically remain “good” indefinitely, without any fuel stabilizer added… i.e. in a totally sealed container, totally void of any oxygen (basically in a vacuum container). Gasoline turns bad, stale, sour, or whatever you want to call it in two ways (I won’t address moisture, because it doesn’t chemically change gasoline)…

1. Loss of volatility. The volatiles, the lighter fractions that cause gasoline to readily vaporize, evaporate out. No “stabilizer” can stop or slow this process; the best defense against vaporization is to store gasoline in a sealed container as near full as possible. Many fuel additives (or stabilizers) add more volatiles, such as the naphtha in SeaFoam… but this isn’t “stabilization”, it’s just adding more volatiles so it requires more time before vaporization causes stale gas. I don’t care how much SeaFoam you add to gasoline… store it in an open bucket and it will be “bad” because of vaporization in just a day or two, certainly nothing close to two years. If you’re gonna’ “go with your can”, ya’ better read the whole can, because it also tells you how to “store” your gas.
2. Oxidation. Just as oxidation is a chemical process that converts iron into iron oxide (rust), the oxidation process converts gasoline into something else, eventually resulting in the formation of solids (gums and varnishes). This is the major problem with today’s “oxygenated” gasoline… because it has oxygen in it even storing it in a vacuum won’t stop the oxidation process. Whereas years ago, gasoline would often go stale from vaporization long before oxidation created issues, the situation has been reversed… today’s gasoline can go “bad” from oxidation in a very short time, as short as a few days. The process can be slowed significantly by adding chemicals with antioxidant properties, such as butylhydroxytoluene… but there are others. This is “stabilization”… actually slowing down the chemical break down process.

SeaFoam does not contain an antioxidant. Rather than slow the oxidation process it uses solvents to keep the solids (gums and varnishes) in liquid form… but the fuel is still oxidizing (going bad) at the same rate! SeaFoam protects your equipment from “gumming up”, but it does not protect your fuel from oxidizing! All you need to do is go to the SeaFoam website and read the “how it works” section…

Helps stabilize fuel. Sea Foam Motor Treatment adds volatility, dissolves and prevents varnish formation in the fuel, this is also important for fuel storage and when storing vehicles and equipment helping to keep carburetor jets or fuel injectors clean. Sea Foam can help stabilize fuels for up to two years. Always run the engine for a long enough period of time to assure the Sea Foam Motor treatment has been drawn through the entire system fuel system for complete protection.

Notice it makes no claim whatsoever to the prevention of fuel oxidation. That doesn’t make SeaFoam necessarily “bad”… because it does protect the equipment from “gumming up”. But if you have need for actual “fuel stabilization” there are products that will do that… Sta-Bil being one. What good does it do me to have a non-gummed up carb on my emergency generator if the fuel is too far gone to make it run? The generator is for emergency purpose… I need to protect the 6-gallons of fuel in it just as much as I need to protect the equipment itself. Now a lawn mower is different; as long as the carb doesn’t plug up… I guess if that half-gallon of fuel goes bad it ain’t a big deal, I can just dump it, pour in a fresh half-gallon, and keep crankin’ until it sucks all the bad fuel from the float bowl. It ain’t like I’m standing out there in a blizzard at 3:00 AM, with no electricity, freezing my arse off, trying to get the damn thing running.

But hey… what ever floats your boat.

 

[kmcinms]

Stabilize this

Most all good 2 stroke oil has fuel stabilizer in it. You guys ever wonder how there is enough stabilizer in the oil to stabilize the fuel when you aren't using any more mix oil than you ever did when there wasn't stabilizer in it? :msp_confused:
Confused yet?
Think about it. You use at least one ounce of stabilizer per gallon, yet you aren't using any more mix oil than you ever have. So how are they getting all that fuel stabilization out of the small amount of mix oil???? :msp_unsure:

BTW, for all the Marine Stabil users, the main active ingredient in Marine Stabil is ........wait for it.......deodorized kerosene.
I use kerosene in my fuel as a stabilizer, never have a problem. One ounce to a gallon. No more sour fuel. But I also try to use it before 3 months.

 

[Whitespider]

BTW, for all the Marine Stabil users, the main active ingredient in Marine Stabil is... deodorized kerosene.

That's not quite true... he current MSDS for Marine Sta-Bil shows 80% Petroleum Distillate (unspecified) and 20% Additive Mixture (proprietary). The Petroleum Distillate (which may or may not be kerosene) is mostly the carrier for the "active" ingredients in the 20% proprietary Additive Mixture. For reference, regular Sta-Bil is 95% Petroleum Distillate (unspecified) and 5% Additive Mixture (proprietary)... the two proprietary Additive Mixtures could possibly be different from each other, or possibly not.

And this answers your question about how they get enough stabilizer in those little bottles of oil... the 2-stroke oil (often containing Petroleum Distillate) becomes the "carrier" so the miniscule 5% of "active" ingredients use almost no volume at all.

Adding kerosene to your gasoline is not stabilizing it... it's simply adding kerosene (a solvent, of sorts) to it.

 

[kmcinms]

I knew you'd be along shortly

That 5% is agreeable, but it still would seem to take lubricating oil out of the total volume of mix.

Here it states very clearly that the petroleum distillate is deodorized kerosene.
http://www.primeautomotive.com/msds/sta-bil_22240_msds.pdf
ICSC:NENG1379 International Chemical Safety Cards (WHO/IPCS/ILO) | CDC/NIOSH

Now, dig deeper and find out what the other 20% is and let us know what you find. :msp_tongue:

 

[Whitespider]

OK, so it’s 80% kerosene. But it doesn’t matter, it could be mineral spirits, or mineral oil, or any other petroleum distillate. It ain’t in there for fuel stabilization; it’s in there to make the product convenient for the end user… without it the consumer would have to try and measure two-tenths of an ounce, or in the case of regular Sta-Bil the consumer would need to measure five-hundredths of an ounce.

Now, as to the 5%... normally, MSDS values are given in weight, not volume (although this one doesn’t make it clear). Kerosene is a relatively light distillate, but it’s unknown what the density of the additive mixture is. What we do know (from your links) is that the kerosene’s specific gravity is 0.79-.82, and the vapor density is 4.5. We also know (from your links) that Marine Sta-Bil has a specific gravity of 0.9, and a vapor density of 4.8… indicating the additive mixture is significantly heavier than kerosene. Which means a 5% by weight additive mixture would be somewhat less than 5% by volume… displacing even less 2-stroke oil in the container.

I’m afraid discovering what is in the (proprietary) additive mixture would require a lab analysis; I’m fairly certain Gold Eagle Company ain’t gonna’ just give out the recipe. But if I had to guess… I’m pretty darn confidant it would contain an antioxidant or two.

One more thing… If I remember correctly (and I’m going on nothing but memory), at one time the “carrier” used in Sta-bil was isopropyl alcohol, which gave the added benefit of absorbing moisture. But as it turns out, mixing isopropyl alcohol and ethanol in conjunction with certain chemicals may cause more problems than it cures. Again, if I had to guess, I would say one of the ingredients in the additive mixture was one of those chemicals… causing the change of carrier. That could also explain why the additive mixture is more in Marine Sta-bil… because a moisture absorbing element is added. But, this is just me likely over-analyzing… without any fact to support it.

 

[kmcinms]

Wow, you really do get into this stuff

Hey, I agree, it's just the carrier. Now find out what the miniscule amount of the magic part we be needing is...... oke: :msp_biggrin: