Presets for Spinning and Breaking Chain

[Philbert]

I get asked these questions a lot, so I thought I would start a thread that I could reference, and a place where others could post related comments.

Saw chains are made up of cutters, drive links, and tie straps, and are held together by rivets. Since handling the tiny rivets could be awkward, pairs of rivets are pre-assembled to one tie strap ('preset' or 'pre-set') for use in joining chain to make loops, repairs, etc.



Preset and tie strap



Since each rivet also functions as a bearing, the center ('flange bearing' in illustration above) is harder, and a larger diameter than the 'hubs', which are spun down (or mushroomed with a hammer) to hold the chain together.

A spinner / breaker set is the preferred way to remove and install chain parts, although, there are some 'field expedient' methods for doing this with more basic tools.

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/baileys-chain-breaker-and-spinner.144859/
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/spinning-chain-fess-up.170216/
Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Selecting Presets

If you just run one size / style / brand of chain, it is pretty easy to keep a bunch of compatible pre-sets and tie straps on hand. Once you start working on different chains, you you start learning a lot more about chains, and all the variations, and discover that the parts can vary by:
- pitch
- gauge
- brand
- type (e.g. narrow kerf, or low kickback)
- etc.

For example Oregon uses the same presets for most 0.050 and 0.058 gauge chains (except narrow kerf), and separate ones for 0.063 gauge. STIHL uses the same for all 3 pitches in common sizes. Smaller pitch and specialty (3/8 low profile, etc.) chains may be different.


Presets need to fit in several dimensions. Sometimes, parts will vary between similar chains by a few thousandths of an inch, but will not fit, or will bind if used:



Sometimes parts from one brand of chain will fit another. Sometimes not. I prefer to use OEM parts, especially, when working on other people's chains. So, it is easy to start building up a collection of dozens of different presets, along with matching small parts (cutters, drive links, tie straps) to use for repairs. It's also easy to end up with more $ tied up in presets than in your spinner / breaker set! *** I use the 'Plano'-style, divided parts boxes to sort and LABEL them. Small zip-lock bags also work. Did I mention to LABEL them?***



'Unbranded' presets and tie straps are available cheap on eBay (search for 'chainsaw presets' or 'chainsaw master links'). Sometimes, name brand parts can also be found there. Oregon parts can be ordered through places like Bailey's, and many online places that sell chains, although the shipping can kill you if that is all you order. But the shipping is often 'free' if you plan ahead and add it on to an existing order.

I order STIHL presets from my STIHL dealer in packs of 8 to 10, and have paid anywhere from $1.25 each to as low as 50 cents each in quantity. They also sell me individual links for other chains, if they have them.

Philbert

 

[Wood Doctor]

One thing I often do is save the tie strap when I cut a chain with a spinner. I can usually straighten a slight bend in the tie strap if it occurs. The preset is usually history, so I throw it away. Finding a seller that will supply only the presets is not easy, however. They tend to always throw in the matching tie straps. So, I now have a huge collection of extra tie straps. I've talked to other chain loop makers and they agree to the same syndrome. It is what it is.

 

[Philbert]

I save parts when I can. Even practiced punching rivets out of used presets to make them into tie straps. Especially, for less common chains.

Gave up with 0.043 parts that bend, then bind, if you look at them funny.

Bailey’s will sell you presets and tie straps separately.

Philbert

 

[farmer steve]

Great info @Philbert. Thanks.FS.

 

[old guy]

I recently cut 24" down to 20", didn't have a new pre set, just used the old one. Haven't had a problem with this yet, but I don't spin much chain. Up

 

[Wood Doctor]

... Bailey’s will sell you presets and tie straps separately.
Philbert

Thanks, Philbert. I was aware of that, but Bailey's is anything but cheap. Through E-bay, I just found a supplier for about half the price. First time I have seen this offer. I'll order a batch of presets and let you know how it turns out.

 

[svk]

Another great thread. I have the Tecomec breaker/spinner set on Ebay set as a "favorite" which I will buy sooner than later. I need to go see a guy in the cities first to buy a grinder though.

I bought some .404 presets from your Stihl dealer for a fellow AS'er and delivered them to him. IIRC those were pretty spendy but necessary for his MS880.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I use 404 and regular 3/8'' chain. I do have some saws with 3/8'' micro and mini but mostly smaller saws have no value. I have fabricated a couple of small anvils to use out in the field for splicing and repairs. the anvils are only a few inches long so that they can go in to any tool box. I have a spinner and chain breaker at my shop, but it is not always needed. With just a punch and a heavy wrench or hammer breaking a chain is pretty easy if the rivet head is filed down before attempting to break. Using a flat punch to drive the rivet back down when splice or repair is done is also not difficult. I was once concerned that the rivet would fail because some of the rivet was compromised but they have never. Another plus has been that pushing the rivet out with the chain breaker has often caused some twisting or rivet compromise so why not take some material off every time. I buy several bags of splicing links for such occasions, but once in a while a perfect storm occurs and one needs to make concessions. Thanks

 

[Philbert]

Not calling you an 'old-timer' @Ted Jenkins, but the 'pocket breaker' was a classic way to mend chains in the field. E.g. Oregon 39472 Pocket Chain Breaker:

Essentially, the same slotted anvil that comes with many bench mounted chain breakers, along with a punch, to drive out the rivets. As Ted mentioned, it is easier if you file the rivet heads off first. Then, use the flat part of the anvil, placed on a stump, to flatten / peen over the heads of the new rivets with a ball-peen hammer, or the head of an axe. It has worked on many an older chain, but does not form or set the rivet as well as spinning.

The Granberg 'Break-N-Mend' was also a classic that is still available. Essentially a modified Vice-Grip type tool to spin and break rivets:


I have used both of these, and can make them work in the field, but usually just carry extra chains. It can be good to know how to break a chain in the field, in case you have to free up a really stuck saw, especially those with an outboard sprocket (many Husqvarnas), or if the chain becomes really tangled in some wire, etc. Filing off the rivet heads, and prying the tie straps off with a scrench is not pretty, but could work.


I really like using a good spinner and breaker set, which is not that much more, when you consider that it can pay for itself if it helps you salvage 4 or 5 good chains. I have the Bailey's Woodland Pro set, which I bought after seeing them use it as their shop tool, spinning custom loops for customers:
https://www.baileysonline.com/woodlandpro-chain-breaker-spinner-combination-sbc.html
These are also a good deal (*was told that they are out of stock until 'the end of September, 2020*):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tecomec-Ch...BO-Repair-Tool-Pro-Bench-Mounted/381880301401
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Archer-Cha...BO-Repair-Tool-Pro-Bench-Mounted/383398090918
More info in those threads referenced in the first post in this thread.

Philbert

 

[Huskybill]

Good info on chain education. When in the bizz I tried to save pennies where I could. It’s survival.

I got a Oregon spinner and rivet removal tools. About 35 years ago. Your right some rivet plates we press out are reusable. I thought I could save a bundle making my own chains from 25’ reels. When the shorter chain loops are on sale it beats making them. To save money the longer chain loops is where the savings start, when using 404” chain on my bigger power heads. My wholesaler had Oregon chain loops 3/8”-.050”-60dl full chisel 72LP for $6 a loop pre packaged. Decades ago I grabbed what I could afford.

For anyone still using 404” chain it lasts longer over 3/8” like 2 or 3 chain loops of 3/8” to one 404” loop. I run 3/8” on 18” bar and 404” on 18” bar so the comparison is equal.

Oregon at one time offered saw chain repair kits. I used them to repair teeth on new chains I hit steel in the trees. For a while I had bad luck mainly doing favors for people. I stopped doing that. But I have seen eye bolts inside of trunks in the forest with no houses around. Weird.

Overall when replacing the chain, the rim and drum and bar at a dealer it can run over $100+. I’m sure it’s more now.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Not calling you an 'old-timer' @Ted Jenkins, but the 'pocket breaker' was a classic way to mend chains in the field. E.g. Oregon 39472 Pocket Chain Breaker:

What are you trying to say here. What is wrong with using classic MO. One thing nice about my classic anvils is they have some holes in them so a nail can be used to fasten them on a stump which makes them kind of easy to use when needed. Since I stay at a location for weeks setting up seems worth while. Yes having extra chains is always essential. I do not hear about grinding down the riveting pin much as it seems like there is no down side. I might have a splicing kit some where, but I always seem to be able to spot my home built anvil. It is probably all due to being what some call an old timer. Thanks

 

[Huskybill]

Ted we’re older, wiser, smart, dam we got old. Just as we figured out life we got old. I even have a press for motorcycle chains.

I miss my cutting firewood days, one with being out in nature. The smell of the cool fall air this time of the year. I love the smell of two stroke with it.

 

[Huskybill]

Remember not to spin the rivets too tight and not too loose.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Ted we’re older, wiser, smart, dam we got old. Just as we figured out life we got old. I even have a press for motorcycle chains. I miss my cutting firewood days, one with being out in nature. The smell of the cool fall air this time of the year. I love the smell of two stroke with it.

Philbert how could you??? You derailed your own thread. Thanks

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Ted we’re older, wiser, smart, dam we got old. Just as we figured out life we got old. I even have a press for motorcycle chains. I miss my cutting firewood days, one with being out in nature. The smell of the cool fall air this time of the year. I love the smell of two stroke with it.

I spent more than twenty years racing MX thinking any weekend I may not return. Then there were the timber sales that were over whelming. On one particular sale I lived in a eight and a half foot camper for over two years. My younger son did not mind as he got a Yamaha mini and knew where the two stroke mix was. He rode up and down the roads and trails hundreds of times until he could not go any farther. One winter morning I could not get out of my camper so had to take the window out so I could plow snow. For the last eight years I spent several months camping out at a remote area that was two and half hours away from people. Now People call me wanting me to take their wood and will deliver, but no I complain that I would rather be camping. A quart of coffee in the morning for me and a gallon of chain saw mix for the saws then a ice cold water melon before a nap. Yeah what is not to like. Thanks

 

[Philbert]

Philbert how could you??? You derailed your own thread. Thanks

Presets don't install themselves! Spinners, breakers, anvils, reuse (not recommended), chain repair, etc., are all related topics.

Philbert

 

[Huskybill]

I spent more than twenty years racing MX thinking any weekend I may not return. Then there were the timber sales that were over whelming. On one particular sale I lived in a eight and a half foot camper for over two years. My younger son did not mind as he got a Yamaha mini and knew where the two stroke mix was. He rode up and down the roads and trails hundreds of times until he could not go any farther. One winter morning I could not get out of my camper so had to take the window out so I could plow snow. For the last eight years I spent several months camping out at a remote area that was two and half hours away from people. Now People call me wanting me to take their wood and will deliver, but no I complain that I would rather be camping. A quart of coffee in the morning for me and a gallon of chain saw mix for the saws then a ice cold water melon before a nap. Yeah what is not to like. Thanks

Being in the wilds sounds awesome, I’d like that, no phone just the animals and saws.
My cousin lived in vt, had a trailer on a 625 acre farm. He had two bottles of 151 rum anti-freeze when he needed to get firewood in the winter.

 

[Huskybill]

Presets don't install themselves! Spinners, breakers, anvils, reuse (not recommended), chain repair, etc., are all related topics.

Philbert

Sometimes the rivet comes apart perfect and it can be reused, the rivet itself is soft metal.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

How about harvester chain, you guys grinding down the rivets before punching?