Anyone had manufacturing defect in stihl or pferd 2 in 1?

[IntegrityCarpentry]

First, I can sharpen my chains without a guide but I choose to use 2 in 1 a fair amount to get rakers at same time. I am not a pro, but I can troubleshoot and have discovered a problem with my pferd 2 in 1 5/32 size. Brand new. My stihl 13/64, no issues.

The height alignment bar in front of the file that sets the depth of the file in relation to the cutter tooth is off on one side. (Using a good 2 in , I have filed many many chains over the years with my stihl 2 in 1) This new pferd will leave one row of cutter teeth and the gullet In horrible shape. If you just file and cut without paying attention you will think one side of the chain needs touched up as the chain creates a moon shape in the log. Further touching up with that side does nothing at all but remove metal in the same bad shape. Here are pics to illustrate.

I have emailed my distributor and know they will take care of me. I am just curious to know if this was a fluke, or part of a large bad batch. I got another one at the same time that I need to check out.
I also wanted to post in case someone else had this issue and thought they were loosing it, or just wanted to toss the 2 in 1. Properly made it is marvelous for field sharpening and more.

Additional thoughts. If you have issues like mine go with your gut instinct. It took a long time to be able to document this as I didn’t know what was wrong and there aren’t easy ways with the tools I have and the rounded shape of the handles. Even the flat parts have gentle curves, and the square bar guides are set at several angles so you have to measure at the exact same point or it will throw you off.
This would have been much easier to notice had I used this on full chisel chain. All the chains I used with this in the last couple weeks were semi chisel. I need to get some definitely for the small saw.
Good sidebad sidegoodbad




Last pics just shows where I measured. These are the starting points of the stroke and this sets the depth. I had to remove the files to be able to measure, view and take pics properly.

Let me know if anyone has had a similar problem.

Gabriel

 

[HorsesandEngines]

I purchased the Stihl 2 in 1 on the recommendation of a family friend. Made the Saws at a family members farm we both work at seem “sharp”.
First problem I noticed with mine was that the etch marks that help you maintain the angle were very inconsistent. Shown in the attached picture. I measured and added a new mark in the correct spot. About a 1/4 inch out.
Then I checked the farms sharpener, and it had the same problem. Along with many I examined on the rack at multiple dealers.
Secondly, after a few uses it become very noticeable that it did not cut the rakers evenly.
As much as .015 different from side to side.
I noticed this with mine first, and after finally having time to check the chains on the farms saws they were just as uneven.

So in hind sight, I’ve chalked it up as something to try and a rather expensive way to buy 3 files lol
I decided to get better at filing by hand/eye and purchased WCS progressive depth gauges…. I like the results and much more consistent.

Take Care

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

The photos of the chain cutters- I see no good side?

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

Tagged for interest.

 

[IntegrityCarpentry]

I purchased the Stihl 2 in 1 on the recommendation of a family friend. Made the Saws at a family members farm we both work at seem “sharp”.
First problem I noticed with mine was that the etch marks that help you maintain the angle were very inconsistent. Shown in the attached picture. I measured and added a new mark in the correct spot. About a 1/4 inch out.
Then I checked the farms sharpener, and it had the same problem. Along with many I examined on the rack at multiple dealers.
Secondly, after a few uses it become very noticeable that it did not cut the rakers evenly.
As much as .015 different from side to side.
I noticed this with mine first, and after finally having time to check the chains on the farms saws they were just as uneven.

So in hind sight, I’ve chalked it up as something to try and a rather expensive way to buy 3 files lol
I decided to get better at filing by hand/eye and purchased WCS progressive depth gauges…. I like the results and much more consistent.

Take Care

Now that is not something I have seen in regards to the marks. Definitely something has gotten off in production and should be returned. My original stihl 2 in 1 from 4-5 years ago gives me even rakers and chains cutting faster than out of the box.

2 suggestions if I may. If you can’t return and try reordering from a company you can easily return to get from different batches, either much older or newer, would be: ignore the marks. I just register the plastic evenly against the chain and try to have even strokes. 2, remove the depth gauge file when doing the improper side, or remove it altogether. Some people , and I have done this in the past on some saws is so depth gauges every few times.

Sadly the main thing this tool is supposed to do is speed up process. When I am doing depth gauges sometimes my hands start to cramp, especially multiple chains.

This tool has helped me go from not being able to handfile to actually starting to understand it in 5 years of using 2 in 1.

I should check farm and home store again, but the stihl 2 in 1’s there didn’t seem to have the issue with marks being off. Also if your hesitating on the stihl brand, Pferd 2 in 1 is pretty much same. Again though, if you order it you would want to check immediately. I have ordered from Sawsuppliers.com and immediately offered to send a new one in exchange. Those guys are so awesome.

Thankfully my defective size is 5/32 so I am not filling as much with that size.

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

It's either manufacturing defects, or counterfeit devices.

 

[sean donato]

The photos of the chain cutters- I see no good side?

I agree, that's not how the cutter should look good or bad.

 

[IntegrityCarpentry]

The photos of the chain cutters- I see no good side?

I will try to post pics from working 2 in 1 on full chisel chain in 3/8. The supplier for defective 2 in 1 will be exchanging it.
This is the one I have had for 5ish years. How do these look to you?

 

[Lightning Performance]

Uneven cutters.

Your pushing harder on one side to have uneven hook.

Operator error.

 

[056kid]

The last pics look good.
With a Carlton file o plate, do the rakers separate. Then you can use a simple "Oregon file guide" for the bits.

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

The last pics look good.
With a Carlton file o plate, do the rakers separate. Then you can use a simple "Oregon file guide" for the bits.

"Bits"?

I'm a rookie so tell me if these statements are true or false regarding what gets filed:

1) Pro chain- has cutters and depth gauges
2) "safety"/ reduced kickback chain- has cutters, depth gauges, and safety bumpers

Thanks

 

[IntegrityCarpentry]

"Bits"?

I'm a rookie so tell me if these statements are true or false regarding what gets filed:

1) Pro chain- has cutters and depth gauges
2) "safety"/ reduced kickback chain- has cutters, depth gauges, and safety bumpers

Thanks

All I can say is this tree service has the largest assortment of random chains for cutting I never would have guessed someone to have. And here I am teaching myself….feeling a little out of my league but doing best I can….

 

[sean donato]

"Bits"?

I'm a rookie so tell me if these statements are true or false regarding what gets filed:

1) Pro chain- has cutters and depth gauges
2) "safety"/ reduced kickback chain- has cutters, depth gauges, and safety bumpers

Thanks

They all get filed at some point.

 

[056kid]

"Bits"?

I'm a rookie so tell me if these statements are true or false regarding what gets filed:

1) Pro chain- has cutters and depth gauges
2) "safety"/ reduced kickback chain- has cutters, depth gauges, and safety bumpers

Thanks

The bit is the cutting part of a chain. It's secured to a chain strap & operates by cutting wood in a short straight line, like a chisel.
There're specifics, but I can't remember them. Something about how a tooth is different.
You're correct in your definitions.

 

[sean donato]

It's called a right or left cutter. Then you have preset tie straps, tie straps, and drivers. There can be hump drive links, sometimes referred to as a "guard link", and safty tie straps. Never once heard a cutter called a bit.
"Pro" chains can also have "safty" links. The old shark fin design was actually to make the chain cut smoother, not really for safty. Just turned out it helped reduce kickback as well as making the chain not cut worth a hoot.

 

[056kid]

It's called a right or left cutter. Then you have preset tie straps, tie straps, and drivers. There can be hump drive links, sometimes referred to as a "guard link", and safty tie straps. Never once heard a cutter called a bit.
"Pro" chains can also have "safty" links. The old shark fin design was actually to make the chain cut smoother, not really for safty. Just turned out it helped reduce kickback as well as making the chain not cut worth a hoot.

The cutter, in function & structure is, a chisel bit. The old timers told me. Everybody knows that oldtimers are the source.

 

[thenne1713]

Sorry, I studied photos and was uable to find the round file in your PICS? I have chinese counterfeits, I suspect, but not able to decipher your issue?

 

[IntegrityCarpentry]

Sorry, I studied photos and was uable to find the round file in your PICS? I have chinese counterfeits, I suspect, but not able to decipher your issue?

I removed the round files so I could measure. Basically the rod that rides on the top plate of the cutter, and sets the depth of the file is the problem. One side is set higher than the other. I would probably have to make a video to fully explain. I mainly wanted to post to show that there can be problems with these, and it can make a person frustrated. I also don’t want people to think all 2 in 1’s are bad.

Basically if both sides of cutters are even, and when you do a good job sharpening(sometimes I think I do and miss something like blunted edges, or have not put pressure to file depth gauges on left side cutters, and gotten curved cuts) you have no problems you have nothing to worry about probably.

I have seen several Chinese copies and my dad has one. The main issue with them is poor quality files. Put good files in and they should probably work well.
Two that I worked on for a friend, the file holes were too tight and I needed pliers to remove them. I then chucked the Chinese file into a drill and carefully enlarged the hole slightly where new files could slide freely inside. I like the files to be able to rotate easily with my fingers so the full does not dull quickly on one side.
Third issue, the Chinese 2 in 1 can come apart when replacing files depending on the quality, I had to make angle marks on a table top at 30 degrees for reference, lay the 2 in 1 on it and push it back together and adjust it a bit. Some might need better adhesive. By that time a $36 Pferd doesn’t sound too bad But when you have it already if it works, keep using it. Just get new files, you won’t know what you’ve been missing till you do

Hope yours is well!

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

I removed the round files so I could measure. Basically the rod that rides on the top plate of the cutter, and sets the depth of the file is the problem. One side is set higher than the other. I would probably have to make a video to fully explain. I mainly wanted to post to show that there can be problems with these, and it can make a person frustrated. I also don’t want people to think all 2 in 1’s are bad.

Basically if both sides of cutters are even, and when you do a good job sharpening(sometimes I think I do and miss something like blunted edges, or have not put pressure to file depth gauges on left side cutters, and gotten curved cuts) you have no problems you have nothing to worry about probably.

I have seen several Chinese copies and my dad has one. The main issue with them is poor quality files. Put good files in and they should probably work well.
Two that I worked on for a friend, the file holes were too tight and I needed pliers to remove them. I then chucked the Chinese file into a drill and carefully enlarged the hole slightly where new files could slide freely inside. I like the files to be able to rotate easily with my fingers so the full does not dull quickly on one side.
Third issue, the Chinese 2 in 1 can come apart when replacing files depending on the quality, I had to make angle marks on a table top at 30 degrees for reference, lay the 2 in 1 on it and push it back together and adjust it a bit. Some might need better adhesive. By that time a $36 Pferd doesn’t sound too bad But when you have it already if it works, keep using it. Just get new files, you won’t know what you’ve been missing till you do

Hope yours is well!

The fact it's not all Stihl & Pferd 2 in 1s, just some of them, tells us it's essentially a QC/QA issue.

 

[thenne1713]

First, I can sharpen my chains without a guide but I choose to use 2 in 1 a fair amount to get rakers at same time. I am not a pro, but I can troubleshoot and have discovered a problem with my pferd 2 in 1 5/32 size. Brand new. My stihl 13/64, no issues.

The height alignment bar in front of the file that sets the depth of the file in relation to the cutter tooth is off on one side. (Using a good 2 in , I have filed many many chains over the years with my stihl 2 in 1) This new pferd will leave one row of cutter teeth and the gullet In horrible shape. If you just file and cut without paying attention you will think one side of the chain needs touched up as the chain creates a moon shape in the log. Further touching up with that side does nothing at all but remove metal in the same bad shape. Here are pics to illustrate.

I have emailed my distributor and know they will take care of me. I am just curious to know if this was a fluke, or part of a large bad batch. I got another one at the same time that I need to check out.
I also wanted to post in case someone else had this issue and thought they were loosing it, or just wanted to toss the 2 in 1. Properly made it is marvelous for field sharpening and more.

Additional thoughts. If you have issues like mine go with your gut instinct. It took a long time to be able to document this as I didn’t know what was wrong and there aren’t easy ways with the tools I have and the rounded shape of the handles. Even the flat parts have gentle curves, and the square bar guides are set at several angles so you have to measure at the exact same point or it will throw you off.
This would have been much easier to notice had I used this on full chisel chain. All the chains I used with this in the last couple weeks were semi chisel. I need to get some definitely for the small saw.
View attachment 1055542Good sideView attachment 1055550bad sideView attachment 1055543goodView attachment 1055545bad


View attachment 1055547
View attachment 1055548
Last pics just shows where I measured. These are the starting points of the stroke and this sets the depth. I had to remove the files to be able to measure, view and take pics properly.

Let me know if anyone has had a similar problem.

Gabriel

OK, after studying pics some more, suspect your blue is Pferd or knockoff? (vs STIHL, I suspect is ORANGE/ WHITE?), but ENLARGING your PICs (x2), I believe both would equally measure 1/4" (4/16) from edge of plastic to guide rail, if you clean away the metal shavings? Looks to me that file exposure of 10% above cutter top would be right?