Stihl 064 AV from 1988 - cover washer help

[MartDalb]

Hey everyone

I need a hand here, finishing up this old Stihl 064 AV.
Finally made it run, took a lot of work.

I had to order a new complete clutch for it, and it came with this cover washer, that sits behind the clutch, on top of the oil pump worm part.

The saw did not have this on, when I got it.
And mounting it, as the IPL says, I can't fit the final washer+e-clip to secure the clutch drum/rim sprocket.
It simply can't fit on the remaining crankshaft part, with the cover washer mounted in the back.

Attached pictures to show the items I am talking about. Last picture shows IPL with cover washer.

What to do?
I know some models, of other chainsaws, has similar issues, where some have a cover washer, and some does not.
Do I just run without the cover washer or how do I go about this?

Is this an early version thing vs. older version perhaps?

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

To the best of my knowledge- there are two different end washers that sit directly under the e clip- one for spur drive clutch bells that is wider (33mm) and thicker, the other for sprocket drive which is thinner in both orientations (27mm OD)- would the thinner washer allow you to use the lower dished washer and still fit the e clip to the crank groove?

 

[MartDalb]

To the best of my knowledge- there are two different end washers that sit directly under the e clip- one for spur drive clutch bells that is wider (33mm) and thicker, the other for sprocket drive which is thinner in both orientations (27mm OD)- would the thinner washer allow you to use the lower dished washer and still fit the e clip to the crank groove?

Thanks!
I did notice this, see pictures.
It might actually just work, It does look like it will leave a slightly larger gap for the e-clip mounting.

Just odd, there was no cover washer on the worm gear at all on it.
I think it has been run like that, for years? ( I got it used, so no knowledge of history)

I guess I better not run it without trying to fit the cover washer and the lower dished washer in the end + e-clip.

 

[MartDalb]

Ok - update

Reading through the service manual, I just got sent by @atpchas .

There is actually a wording on the cover washer part.

See picture.

Does this indicate my 064 AV simply does not use a washer, and never had one?

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

I believe the earlier clutch did not have a lower cover washer.

 

[MartDalb]

I believe the earlier clutch did not have a lower cover washer.

I bought myself a good quality aftermarket clutch, from a trusted place.

This was more or less, to my eyes, identical with the original OEM clutch.
This still would not fit the washer.

Only thing left to try is removing the clutch again, and fit the cover washer, and use the lower dished washer, as you suggested.

And if that does not work - I guess I am running without a cover washer, since there is no other fix to this issue, and seeing as the saw does not have damage from running without it, I guess it won't be a problem in the future, hopefully

 

[MartDalb]

I will update on this tommorow -

 

[Dennisthemenace]

I had the same problem. The new clutches are wider. From memory a new drum is also necessary. Or delete the inner washer

 

[MartDalb]

I had the same problem. The new clutches are wider. From memory a new drum is also necessary. Or delete the inner washer

Thanks!

delete the inner washer, meaning run it without the washer behind the clutch?

Any problems with this?
I have read some folks having stripped their worms etc. but honestly I think this was born without it.
And it is from 1988.

 

[SteveSr]

I bought myself a good quality aftermarket clutch, from a trusted place.

That's your problem!

The anti-clutch grenade cover washer is supposed to match the clutch spider. The older spiders were wider and didn't use the grenade washer. Looks like the AM screwed this up.

 

[SteveSr]

Thanks!

delete the inner washer, meaning run it without the washer behind the clutch?

Any problems with this?

None until you loose a clutch spring and everything behind the clutch gets trashed, possibly even the case. The clutches that didn't use a grenade washer had tabs to try to hold the clutch together but apparently didn't work very good which is why Stihl eventually went to the grenade washer design.

 

[MartDalb]

That's your problem!

The anti-clutch grenade cover washer is supposed to match the clutch spider. The older spiders were wider and didn't use the grenade washer. Looks like the AM screwed this up.

Thanks!

Clutch spider? Can you explain this, i'm a bit confused.

I will inspect my worm/oiler gear tommorow, once I get the clutch off.
Did they make changes to these also?
From pictures of the part nr. that fits, it looks different than that mounted on my 064 - and it is the original wormgear, i'm sure.


This would explain why there were no washer behind it from the get go.
The old clutch was so worn, that the entire thing just hung loose, even with new springs it was wabbling all around.

 

[MartDalb]

I had the same problem. The new clutches are wider. From memory a new drum is also necessary. Or delete the inner washer

Can you elaborate here, will I need to find myself a new drum, to match the new AM clutch?

 

[SteveSr]

Thanks!

Clutch spider? Can you explain this, i'm a bit confused.

The spider is the three-armed piece that holds and guides the shoes. Check the thickness of the hub (threaded portion) and compare it with your original. You may also find that an OEM grenade washer is thinner than the aftermarket one. Someone here may be able to measure an OEM one for you. These changes may also be detailed in a Stihl Tech Note somewhere.

The problems with AM parts....

 

[MartDalb]

The spider is the three-armed piece that holds and guides the shoes. Check the thickness of the hub (threaded portion) and compare it with your original. You may also find that an OEM grenade washer is thinner than the aftermarket one. Someone here may be able to measure an OEM one for you. These changes may also be detailed in a Stihl Tech Note somewhere.

The problems with AM parts....

Yeah, original was insanely expensive.
Yes, AM parts do lead to other issues sometimes, I have had other issues at times for sure.

But from what I can read, from your words, is that the washer is mainly there to secure the saw/parts if a spring should go flying?

I mean, it has seen some work this saw, I replaced piston and oil seals, along with a long list of smaller items.
And clutch was, as I wrote, extremely worn.
So I am not too scared of running this as is, without washer, should I be?

Unless of course if I need to replace the drum also, to match the new clutch, not sure if I will have issues here?
Then I will try and see what I can do to get a washer fitted behind, while I am at it.

 

[Dennisthemenace]

The original 064 clutch is slightly narrower at the thread boss (than 066/660)and no longer available. Note the different part numbers . If you use a 066/660 drum you will be ok. Otherwise delete the washer.
I know this because I put a new clutch (probably unnecessary but....) on my precious rebuilt 064 and had the same problem. Fortunately I had a 066 to pinch a drum from which solved the problem. I have seen another 064 without the washer because of this same problem.

 

[MartDalb]

The original 064 clutch is slightly narrower at the thread boss (than 066/660)and no longer available. Note the different part numbers . If you use a 066/660 drum you will be ok. Otherwise delete the washer.
I know this because I put a new clutch (probably unnecessary but....) on my precious rebuilt 064 and had the same problem. Fortunately I had a 066 to pinch a drum from which solved the problem. I have seen another 064 without the washer because of this same problem.

Don't have a 066 drum or anything of that sort.
I can however order an AM drum if that helps out the problem, but will it though...?

Otherwise, if no other issue is caused by not running with a washer behind the clutch, I will run it as it is. It won't be used heavily at all, minor tasks here and there at most.

 

[singinwoodwackr]

Have you tried an older style washer under the C clip? You have a newer one pictured. The old ones are slightly thinner, I believe.
oops…older one on the right, never mind

 

[DND 9000]

What`s your machine no.? Next time please tell us the machine no. too. It makes things much more easy. Saw is from 1988.

From machine no. X 22 377 760 the existing clutch 1122 160 2000 is replaced with the new 1122 160 2005 (current version now 1122 160 2002) clutch. The new clutch uses the washer 1122 160 1000. For the use of this new washer the retainer of the clutch shoes was changed. The new washer can only be used with the new retainer and new clutch spider. Existing old clutches have to be used with the previous retainer and clutch spider.

Introduced: End of 1990.

 

[Dennisthemenace]

Don't have a 066 drum or anything of that sort.
I can however order an AM drum if that helps out the problem, but will it though...?

Otherwise, if no other issue is caused by not running with a washer behind the clutch, I will run it as it is. It won't be used heavily at all, minor tasks here and there at most.

That inner washer is probably the least important part on the saw. For light use I would just delete it then. Plenty do