drying the milled wood

darkstar · Apr 23, 2006

Ok i got 4 inch by 12 inch by 14 foot long cut oak logs from a totaly dead white oak ,we cut the other day . My friend sawed them up using a chainsaw powered bandsaw . Now im wondering how im gonna keep these babies from spliting as they dry.Any ideas ???

oldsaw · Apr 23, 2006

If you want to do it the "real" way, get some Anchorseal and cover the ends with it. If you aren't where any is available at the moment, paint them with some latex paint.

Mark

aggiewoodbutchr · Apr 23, 2006

I'm understanding your lumber is 4" thick. In that case it will be hard to completely keep them from checking. Seal the ends ASAP. If you have enough to make a good stack, make sure your stickers start about an inch or two from the ends, less than 2' on center in between and aligned vertically throughout the stack. Weight the top of the stack (you can't put too much), especially the ends.

Finnbear · Apr 24, 2006

What kind of chainsaw powered bandsaw? Is it a RipSaw or some other brand or a homebrew unit?
Finnbear

darkstar said:
Ok i got 4 inch by 12 inch by 14 foot long cut oak logs from a totaly dead white oak ,we cut the other day . My friend sawed them up using a chainsaw powered bandsaw . Now im wondering how im gonna keep these babies from spliting as they dry.Any ideas ???

coveredinsap · Apr 25, 2006

My experience over the course of many years as a carpenter is that painting the ends is somewhat overrated, as is 'stickers' between lumber initially (other than to keep it up off of the ground). It appears that the biggest mistake that many people make is to let the lumber dry too quickly in loosely stickered stacks, resulting in split, bowed and twisted lumber.
The most important thing from what I've seen over the years is to keep the lumber in a large, heavy,tight stack whereby it is prevented from moving by its neighboring lumber in the stack, thereby keeping it straight as it sits, (particularly for standing dead lumber where there is not so much of a need to dry it...such as what you appear to have) and prevented from drying out too fast. While you may lose a few top and/or side boards in the stack, the majority of the stack should remain in good condition, and above all....don't stack lumber to dry in the sun.

If you want to sticker it, then sticker it in a nice shady spot in a big wide stack with only horizontal airspace between boards, not loosely stacked so that the boards can move side-to-side. You may also wish to keep it covered with a tarp to help protect it from drying out too fast.

A little mold on lumber is much preferable to a stack of split, bowed and twisted boards with no mold, in my opinion.

Finnbear · Apr 25, 2006

Properly stacking and stickering lumber is the MOST important step (after sawing) in producing quality lumber. While moldy boards may be acceptable for construction lumber it is not acceptable for finish lumber since the mold will stain the boards and ruin the lumber for finish uses (unless it will be painted). End sealant should be applied as soon as the log is cut to length since they will develop end splits inside of 24 hours without it. Dried and milled Cherry fetches nearly $10/board foot so losing 6" off each end of a single 1x6 can cost you $5. At that rate it only takes a dozen boards to pay for a 5 gallon bucket of wax based end sealant. Split, bowed, and twisted lumber comes from not stacking and stickering and weighting the pile properly. Lumber should be stacked on a nearly perfectly flat pallet with stickers across the width of the board spaced every 16 inches along its length. Stickers should be 4/4 material, uniform thickness, straight, and dry. Green stickers often stain boards with black stripes that are deep enough that they do not come off completely when the boards are planed. There should be about one inch spacing between each board. The stack should be no more than 4 feet in width to ensure the middle boards receive adequate airflow. The stickers in each layer should be directly above the stickers in the previous layer so the boards do not get waves in them. The stack can be as long as the boards you are drying and as tall as you can comfortably stack them (usually about 6ft). The top layer needs to be stickered and then covered with a layer of plywood or roof tin or some other suitable material to keep the weather off with some overhang of the roof material being a good idea. The top of the stack should then be weighted over each column of stickers length with cement blocks or something heavy to keep the upper layers flat. The entire stack should be positioned somewhere that receives decent airflow and is not in direct sunlight or it should be under roof in an open air shed. I use an open-sided drying shed which will hold 6 stacks of lumber with 800-1000 bf per stack. Lumber dried in this manner tends to be very stable when finish dried. If the finish lumber will be used indoors then it should be brought indoors and re-stacked and stickered for about a month before use. This will allow it to further dry and acclimate itself to the temp and humidity it will experience in its finished state. I use a rack in my shop that holds about 1000 board feet and keep adding wood from the outdoor shed as I use what is in the rack. There are some good publications on lumber drying and if you look around enough you can find many of them for little or no cost.
Finnbear

Newfie · Apr 25, 2006

Way to stick to the facts Finnbear. Excellent info, no doubt based on much experience doing it the right way.

darkstar · Apr 26, 2006

Thanx

WOW that really helps. I did seal the lumber imm. after milling and have stacked and stickered it in a cool space under a huge oak tree . I covered it with pressure treated plywood and weighted the ply with about 6 concrete blocks . My stickers are about 1.5 inches wide by 3/4 inch . Im hoping they were dry enough to prevent staining . The tree i cut this wood from had been dead for about 3 years . I was hoping some drying had already occured .This is our first attempt to began using wood that we get regularly from our tree service in some other fashion than fire wood . I checked eveything with a level and the plie is spot on. The stickers are about one foot apart .
Thanx very much for the info .I ordered a book or two on drying lumber .We got alot to learn .... Dark

Finnbear · Apr 26, 2006

Sounds like you're on the right track. I got into milling and timber salvage the same way. My first pile of logs came from some cherry trees that came down in a storm at a neighbor of my parents. I was helping clear away the damage and couldn't bring myself to cut some of the nice straight stuff into firewood so I bucked it into 8-1/2 foot logs and loaded it on my trailer. I found a guy with a WoodMizer and he cut up my first pile of boards. He didn't do the greatest job of sawing them but it was still very much $$ worth my while. Then a tornado came through and took out almost twenty big tall oak and hickory trees at my wife's grandparents house. I got a boom truck in to load all that and had it sawed also. The hickory kitchen cabinets in my parents house all came from that load. Since then I scrounge any and every log I can get my hands on and I keep buying and building better tools to handle the logs and lumber with the money I make.

Tell me more about the chainsaw powered bandsaw you mentioned earlier. I have seen one available commercially called a RipSaw but never ran into anyone who used one yet. Is that what you used? How well does it work? Any shortcomings? If not a RipSaw then who makes it? I'm thinking about adding a portable bandsaw to my toolbox and the chainsaw powered bandsaw style looks interesting. PM me if you wish.
Thanks - Finnbear

aggiewoodbutchr · Apr 26, 2006

Finnbear said:
Properly stacking and stickering lumber is the MOST important step (after sawing) in producing quality lumber. While moldy boards may be acceptable for construction lumber it is not acceptable for finish lumber since the mold will stain the boards and ruin the lumber for finish uses (unless it will be painted). End sealant should be applied as soon as the log is cut to length since they will develop end splits inside of 24 hours without it. Dried and milled Cherry fetches nearly $10/board foot so losing 6" off each end of a single 1x6 can cost you $5. At that rate it only takes a dozen boards to pay for a 5 gallon bucket of wax based end sealant. Split, bowed, and twisted lumber comes from not stacking and stickering and weighting the pile properly. Lumber should be stacked on a nearly perfectly flat pallet with stickers across the width of the board spaced every 16 inches along its length. Stickers should be 4/4 material, uniform thickness, straight, and dry. Green stickers often stain boards with black stripes that are deep enough that they do not come off completely when the boards are planed. There should be about one inch spacing between each board. The stack should be no more than 4 feet in width to ensure the middle boards receive adequate airflow. The stickers in each layer should be directly above the stickers in the previous layer so the boards do not get waves in them. The stack can be as long as the boards you are drying and as tall as you can comfortably stack them (usually about 6ft). The top layer needs to be stickered and then covered with a layer of plywood or roof tin or some other suitable material to keep the weather off with some overhang of the roof material being a good idea. The top of the stack should then be weighted over each column of stickers length with cement blocks or something heavy to keep the upper layers flat. The entire stack should be positioned somewhere that receives decent airflow and is not in direct sunlight or it should be under roof in an open air shed. I use an open-sided drying shed which will hold 6 stacks of lumber with 800-1000 bf per stack. Lumber dried in this manner tends to be very stable when finish dried. If the finish lumber will be used indoors then it should be brought indoors and re-stacked and stickered for about a month before use. This will allow it to further dry and acclimate itself to the temp and humidity it will experience in its finished state. I use a rack in my shop that holds about 1000 board feet and keep adding wood from the outdoor shed as I use what is in the rack. There are some good publications on lumber drying and if you look around enough you can find many of them for little or no cost.
Finnbear

THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH!!!! :bowdown:

The only thing I'll add is if the stack is outdoor it should be positioned such that the prevailing winds blow through the side of the stack, not the end. This will help prevent checking.

coveredinsap · Apr 26, 2006

aggiewoodbutchr said:
THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH!!!!
.

LOL! That's a good one!

I especially liked the part about moving the wood indoors and letting it sit for a month to 'acclimate'.
Hahahahahahahaha! That's a Time-Life book wannabe trick.

The truth is, that unless the environment inside your house is radically different in temperature and humidity than the outside....and I mean radically different....then you're wasting your time.
(A good example of 'radically different' would be South Florida in the summertime...hot and damp outside, air conditioned and dehumidified inside.)

No matter. Do whatever you like. I could care less.

Sawyer Rob · Apr 26, 2006

The truth is, that unless the environment inside your house is radically different in temperature and humidity than the outside....and I mean radically different....then you're wasting your time.

Sap,

Are you saying you don't heat your house in the winter???? You don't cool your house in the summer???

The "bring it in and let it acclimate" only works for "normal" people! I guess it doesn't work for a cave dweller like you....

Rob

aggiewoodbutchr · Apr 26, 2006

coveredinsap said:
I especially liked the part about moving the wood indoors and letting it sit for a month to 'acclimate'.
Hahahahahahahaha! That's a Time-Life book wannabe trick.

So let me get this straight. You're saying that information published by distinguished research firms and industry renowned experts on this subject is incorrect? I guess I need to update my library.

Finnbear · Apr 26, 2006

Do you own a GOOD moisture meter? Have you ever monitored the relative humidity inside and outside of your house simultaneously over a period of time? Outdoor humidity levels will vary greatly depending on the weather. Indoor levels vary somewhat but remain much more constant than outdoors. The average humidity inside will normally be lower than the average humidity outside and this will dry the wood even further especially in newer "tighter" energy efficient homes. These homes are typically air conditioned/dehumidified which amplifies the effect. With a good moisture meter you can measure a difference in MC after wood is stored inside for a couple months. If you use air dried wood immediately after bringing it indoors you will notice that miters and close fitted joints will open up after a few months indoors. This is due to a reduction in MC caused by lower humidity indoors. Wet lumber will continue to dry until it reaches an equilibrium with its environment which will be dryer inside than out. I don't need to make any of this up - it is well established fact and easily observed by anyone who cares to.
Finnbear

coveredinsap said:
LOL! That's a good one!

I especially liked the part about moving the wood indoors and letting it sit for a month to 'acclimate'.
Hahahahahahahaha! That's a Time-Life book wannabe trick.

The truth is, that unless the environment inside your house is radically different in temperature and humidity than the outside....and I mean radically different....then you're wasting your time.
(A good example of 'radically different' would be South Florida in the summertime...hot and damp outside, air conditioned and dehumidified inside.)

No matter. Do whatever you like. I could care less.

flht01 · Apr 27, 2006

RipSaw

Finnbear said:
...

Tell me more about the chainsaw powered bandsaw you mentioned earlier. I have seen one available commercially called a RipSaw but never ran into anyone who used one yet. Is that what you used? How well does it work? Any shortcomings? If not a RipSaw then who makes it? I'm thinking about adding a portable bandsaw to my toolbox and the chainsaw powered bandsaw style looks interesting. PM me if you wish.
Thanks - Finnbear

Finnbear, enjoyed reading your post's. I've got a ripsaw and will be glad to answer any questions you might have. I have to admit I'm still in the honeymoon stages with it but have a few links to folks that have had time to put it through the paces. Maybe a new thread would drag some of the ripsaw users out of the closet :laugh:

Kevin

coveredinsap · Apr 27, 2006

Finnbear said:
Do you own a GOOD moisture meter? Have you ever monitored the relative humidity inside and outside of your house simultaneously over a period of time? Outdoor humidity levels will vary greatly depending on the weather. Indoor levels vary somewhat but remain much more constant than outdoors. The average humidity inside will normally be lower than the average humidity outside and this will dry the wood even further especially in newer "tighter" energy efficient homes. These homes are typically air conditioned/dehumidified which amplifies the effect. With a good moisture meter you can measure a difference in MC after wood is stored inside for a couple months. If you use air dried wood immediately after bringing it indoors you will notice that miters and close fitted joints will open up after a few months indoors. This is due to a reduction in MC caused by lower humidity indoors. Wet lumber will continue to dry until it reaches an equilibrium with its environment which will be dryer inside than out. I don't need to make any of this up - it is well established fact and easily observed by anyone who cares to.
Finnbear

LOL! Dude, you're being way too anal about wood. It reminds me of wannabes who read a bunch of books and buy all the latest gadgets and doodads to try and understand something that is, in actuality, relatively simple.
So here it is:
Wood moves. It is never a constant. That is what makes it such an excellent building material.

Attempting to monitor moisture to the nth degree...letting wood 'acclimatize' for weeks or months on end in order to achieve some fractional moisture content difference is...anal.

Newsflash: If the wood has been sitting inside at Home Depot, it is good to go in your home...immediately. No need to wait. Again, the acclimazation 'waiting period' is for radically different environment/temperature changes, not normal ones.

But whatever. Never let it be said that I interfered with the conniptions of those with obsessive/compulsive disorder. Hell....follow the manufacturers instructions, let the wood sit a year...ten years...whatever. As I said, I could care less.

Newfie · Apr 27, 2006

coveredinsap said:
LOL! Dude, you're being way too anal about wood. It reminds me of wannabes who read a bunch of books and buy all the latest gadgets and doodads to try and understand something that is, in actuality, relatively simple.
So here it is:
Wood moves. It is never a constant. That is what makes it such an excellent building material.

Attempting to monitor moisture to the nth degree...letting wood 'acclimatize' for weeks or months on end in order to achieve some fractional moisture content difference is...anal.

Newsflash: If the wood has been sitting inside at Home Depot, it is good to go in your home...immediately. No need to wait. Again, the acclimazation 'waiting period' is for radically different environment/temperature changes, not normal ones.

But whatever. Never let it be said that I interfered with the conniptions of those with obsessive/compulsive disorder. Hell....follow the manufacturers instructions, let the wood sit a year...ten years...whatever. As I said, I could care less.

You are awfully verbose for someone who could care less.

The real truth is that you couldn't know less about the subject.

We are not talking about kiln dried lumber from home depot. We are talking about air dried lumber cut on our own mills whether it is from a bandmill or a csm. Air dried lumber will only achieve a MC of 20 -25% outside. Kiln dried lumber is dried to a MC of 6-8% in order to be stable (only minor shrink and expansion) in an interior environment. That is a huge difference in MC. Go and try and use air dried lumber inside without restacking and drying inside and whatever you build will develop problems with poorly fitting joints and cracking and warping. We aren't talking about "fractional differences".

I'm really surprised you haven't googled the subject to death yet.

Finnbear · Apr 27, 2006

coveredinsap said:
LOL! Dude, you're being way too anal about wood. It reminds me of wannabes who read a bunch of books and buy all the latest gadgets and doodads to try and understand something that is, in actuality, relatively simple.
So here it is:
Wood moves. It is never a constant. That is what makes it such an excellent building material.

Attempting to monitor moisture to the nth degree...letting wood 'acclimatize' for weeks or months on end in order to achieve some fractional moisture content difference is...anal.

Newsflash: If the wood has been sitting inside at Home Depot, it is good to go in your home...immediately. No need to wait. Again, the acclimazation 'waiting period' is for radically different environment/temperature changes, not normal ones.

But whatever. Never let it be said that I interfered with the conniptions of those with obsessive/compulsive disorder. Hell....follow the manufacturers instructions, let the wood sit a year...ten years...whatever. As I said, I could care less.

We are talking about AIR-dried wood which is very different than KILN-dried wood in its MC. It does dry considerably (and shrink) once moved indoors. The lumber you get from Home Depot is kiln dried and has a lower (closer to equilibrium with indoor humidity) MC to begin with.
Finnbear

Sawyer Rob · Apr 27, 2006

Sap is a cave dweller, 25% moisture is probable just about as dry as it gets in there...

Rob

aggiewoodbutchr · Apr 27, 2006

I looked up some of the wanabes 'sap referred to. Here's just a few.

R. Bruce Hoadley "The target in drying is to get the wood moisture content down to the equilibrium level of dryness consistent with the atmosphere in which the finished product will be used."

William W. Rice "...suggests controlling temperature and humidity, if possible, indoors."

Lee Grindinger "He describes the shrinkage you can expect, what to tell the mill operator, how to end-coat the log, choose stickers, build a solid stack, how to watch it, and when to stop."

I found these excerpts in less than 5 minutes. If I had time to waste, I could give you hundreds.

It's one thing to be a renagade. It's another to be ignorant.

drying the milled wood

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