Advanced Palms struggling need ideas

derwoodii · May 7, 2013

25 Palms have been trucked and planted 12 months ago now 25 are struggling so need some ideas please
Install water soil and care has been good but cold, salt spray & planting time is likely start of problems. No evidence of Fusarium wilt just poor vigor slow out of transplant shock.

Has any one used Mychorrizal Fungi for Palms or liquid fertilizer or soil sugar drench or even foliage fert with good response in Phoenix canariensis palms..you can read I'm exploring almost anything.

Pictures can be posted if needed

derwoodii · May 8, 2013

some pic to help

The palm lower slope center shot is an original inhabitant in good condition so it shows that they can do ok in the site. But the others have been here for 15 months after trucked in & transplant and have struggled due to various matters thou not likely water or pathogen.

Raintree · May 8, 2013

They look a bit wind whipped/tattered, any new growth from the heart? Have you checked the soil Micros?

derwoodii · May 8, 2013

Raintree said:
They look a bit wind whipped/tattered, any new growth from the heart? Have you checked the soil Micros?

agree windy location has not helped soft imports were not site hardened as taken from sunny warm north OZ. I may get a full soil test done, it should have been done pre install but this project I did not manage I have just unhappily inherited it.

MCW · May 12, 2013

Definately get a soil test done but are you sure it's not just transplant shock? From what I've seen with transplanted Palms they have a pretty sizable top yet tend to lose a fair bit of root mass when they get pulled up for replanting. 15 months is a fair amount of time though.
If my memory is correct they prefer acid soils too.
Some soil applied Nitrogen and/or Phosphorous (Tech MAP or APP) may stimulate root activity.

derwoodii · May 12, 2013

MCW said:
Definately get a soil test done but are you sure it's not just transplant shock? From what I've seen with transplanted Palms they have a pretty sizable top yet tend to lose a fair bit of root mass when they get pulled up for replanting. 15 months is a fair amount of time though.
If my memory is correct they prefer acid soils too.
Some soil applied Nitrogen and/or Phosphorous (Tech MAP or APP) may stimulate root activity.

agree tranny shock, but it been very profound guessing enhanced by the change warm to cold with wind borne salt not helping, I asked the installers if a soil test done as yet no reply.

Raintree · May 12, 2013

While working in the Caribbean Islands we found a Magnesium Deficiency that showed similar symptoms as your pics. It's why I asked if soil Micros had been checked.

http://miami-dade.ifas.ufl.edu/old/programs/commorn/publications/Mg deficiency palms1 2003.PDF

Magnesium Deficiency in Canary Island Date Palm

MCW · May 12, 2013

Raintree said:
While working in the Caribbean Islands we found a Magnesium Deficiency that showed similar symptoms as your pics. It's why I asked if soil Micros had been checked.

http://miami-dade.ifas.ufl.edu/old/programs/commorn/publications/Mg deficiency palms1 2003.PDF

Magnesium Deficiency in Canary Island Date Palm

Magnesium is a macro but I agree. In most tree crops when Magnesium gets short the plant starts pulling it back out of the older foliage/leaves which is why older leaves tend to show deficiencies first as a rule.

imagineero · May 13, 2013

derwoodii said:
agree tranny shock, but it been very profound guessing enhanced by the change warm to cold with wind borne salt not helping, I asked the installers if a soil test done as yet no reply.

I saw a shocking tranny the other day mate, It's going to take me a while to get over it too.

I'm guessing the original installers didn't offer any kind of guarantee? There must be some $$$$$ there, I put a single mature phoenix in at a Mcdonalds site once, came down from QLD also. The bill all told with the tree, a crane and site prep was about $15k just for that one tree. Had another customer with a phoenix removal last year, she got the tree from some company called 'trees for free' or something like that. They remove trees from peoples yards at no cost and make their money by selling them. She had bought a phoenix off them for about $5k, and a year later it was completely dead. Every frond had come off it. I had to charge her another $2k to get rid of the thing.

Where do you guys get your soil testing done?

Shaun

derwoodii · May 13, 2013

imagineero said:
I saw a shocking tranny the other day mate, It's going to take me a while to get over it too.

I'm guessing the original installers didn't offer any kind of guarantee? There must be some $$$$$ there, I put a single mature phoenix in at a Mcdonalds site once, came down from QLD also. The bill all told with the tree, a crane and site prep was about $15k just for that one tree. Had another customer with a phoenix removal last year, she got the tree from some company called 'trees for free' or something like that. They remove trees from peoples yards at no cost and make their money by selling them. She had bought a phoenix off them for about $5k, and a year later it was completely dead. Every frond had come off it. I had to charge her another $2k to get rid of the thing.

Where do you guys get your soil testing done?

Shaun

bah ha :msp_tongue:and your right about no conditional guarantee that's why gee lucky me I got em to care for. So it seems no soil test done so it best guess game from here. I will get one and move slow and care full with means and methods to better. Once Ph salts and EC known I can better manage & hopeful they'll come out other side just hard to see them suffer and have no solution.

imagineero · May 13, 2013

I wouldn't care if I never saw another phoenix palm for the rest of my life. They're my least favorite of all trees. I've been stabbed by them more times than I'd care to remember, and we get a lot of ibis birds nesting in them up here too. They crap and piss in the trees, and the crap dries and turns to dust so when you trim them you get covered in piss and crap. The dry dusty crap sticks to you if you're sweating too. They really stink. They're also often full of bugs, cockroaches, rats etc... getting stabbed by the spikes is bad news. I had two workers sent off to hospital last year as a result of stabs, and know plenty of guys who've ended up with infections and temporary paralysis from them. I pretty much only do them from cherry pickers now.

Shaun

[video=youtube;6NzOCzorI2k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NzOCzorI2k[/video]

MCW · May 13, 2013

imagineero said:
Where do you guys get your soil testing done?

Shaun

There are a heap of labs mate. I use APAL in Adelaide ( Australian Perry Agricultural Laboratory - soil testing, leaf tissue testing, water testing ) quite a bit as their turn around time is good with me being in SA. The way they present their results is also good as you can pass the report straight to somebody with no soil science background and it will make sense.
Other good ones are Phosyn Analytical ( Soil Analysis and Testing, Specialising in Soil from across Australia by Phosyn Analytical | Phosyn Analytical ) and also Agvita ( AgVita Analytical, Devonport, Tasmania, Australia, professional laboratory offering a premium service for soil, plant and water ) in Tasmania. Phosyn results are basically presented as ppm only so you need to know what the standards are for the soil type that you're getting checked.
Some of the full time soil science nutters I've worked with love the results presented as just ppm plus CEC, SER etc etc. I have to refer to my text books now to make sense of some of it as I haven't studied soil science for nearly 20 years.
Agvita in Tasmania are by far the best I've used with very comprehensive results. Not sure but you may have to be a consultant to use Agvita whereas anybody can send soil/tissue etc to APAL.
You have to be wary with many labs as some of them aren't running proper accreditation and independent testing has shown significant errors with some of their results.

derwoodii · May 13, 2013

I'll sort soil test as got sport field turf boffin labs to help and will take samples from as many site zone depth practical I'm leavin the dead frond on as long as can bare as they can protect the growing core from wind and it salt by yeah ive suffered from these sod rat n bird filled sobs as well very aware of the nasty within

low mg looks very like what got will let you know how it clocks up

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