traverse from tree to tree

Does anyone have suggestions about how to traverse from tree to tree or branch to branch. I am not talking about having someone on the ground hand you a new throw line or a buddy in the other tree. Anyone with experience with the yella grapple? Of course the challenge is to get both ends of the throw line in hand so that you can set up another line.
Thanks

Many years ago I made a grapple to use so I could traverse from one tree to another. It worked alright most the time. Some times it would unexpectedly come loose and you would swing back into the tree pretty hard.
Better but more time consuming was using a throw line. After getting it over a good branch, and letting the throw ball down some, I would use a homemade device, a fishing weight with wire hooks. You could attach it to the piece of throw line still in your hand via a small loop, and feed out line tell the weight took it next to the throw ball line,(now both vertical) then try to catch the other line on one of the hooks and pull it back to you. Then just a matter of pulling a climbing line through.
Back then I used a 8 plate on one side and a taunt hitch on the other pulling my self over. I could think of a lot better ways now to rig up my lines. With out help on the ground those might be your only two options.
I think if you could get your rope rigged right, you could zip line your self from one tree to another, or use two cambrien savers with pulleys on each side and and hand over hand to the other side. Being hook to two ropes, its not that easy to pull and give at the same time to traverse horizontal. It's easier to secure the rope in the other tree, then slowly lower your self. Bad thing about that is you'll be the distance of the two trees, lower when you get there.
Hope to of at lest gave ya some food for thought.

Grabber

been wanting one of these for awhile but I got the wraptor so been holding off. Dont get to much call for it.

The throwline technique Beastmaster described is what I do, I know the technique as "The Dangle". I demonstrate in this video, I'm primarily demonstrating a custom slingshot to make the throw to perform the Dangle but if you have a clear enough path you can throw by hand. Reality in woods situations is there's very rarely a clear path so some type of throwing device is really helpful:
https://vimeo.com/26036153

I'm setting a single rope traverse in the video but the technique can be used for a DRT traverse as well. That was the first time I set a solo single rope traverse up high so you get to enjoy my nervousness going over ;-)

Here are some drawings showing the technique:
A. Traverse setting technique | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

-AJ

moss said:

"The Dangle". I demonstrate in this video,

Here are some drawings showing the technique:

-AJ

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Moss, I have watched your video several times and love it, especially the spot where you are started across and hear a branch break :msp_w00t: Incredible! Your drawings are also very impressive and informative. Exactly the information and ideas I was hoping to find.
What a great forum.
Thanks

Nice post Moss,
I've seen a lot of your stuff on other forums as well, always enjoyable to read, but I'm not so sure this sort of technique is practical for production environemt climbers. Certainly a big labour saver for seed gathers etc, and of some academic interest as well.

In a production environment, it's fairly rare to need to traverse trees at very large heights, very few customers are going to ask "could you take off just the one branch at 110' on each of these 10 trees that are within 20' of each other?" Depending on what sort of earea you are working in, you may get this sort of work from time to time. If you do get frequent trimming of very tall trees then by all means invest in a wraptor, you could cover the cost on 2 or 3 jobs if you get that sort of work.

For the more frequent occasional job with 2 trees alongside or similar, you can save yourself a lot of grief by just setting a line in each tree from the ground, canopy permitting. I can't imagine that video moss posted needs much less than half an hour from the time you start shooting throwlines to the time you are in the other tree, even for someone moderately proficient.... A lot of money if you have a crew and chipper on the ground.

Shaun

imagineero said:

Nice post Moss,
I've seen a lot of your stuff on other forums as well, always enjoyable to read, but I'm not so sure this sort of technique is practical for production environemt climbers. .................... A lot of money if you have a crew and chipper on the ground.

Shaun

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Shaun,
Your points are well taken and with merit. I posed the question because I am new to climbing, (excluding when I was 12 and would go over 120' in the tall fir trees of Oregon and I think that was before Petzel even started) anyway, I started recreational climbing a few months ago and want to learn everything about it and the equipment and methods. And I am learning...THERE ARE MANY!...to say the least. Funny thing, first time I went to our Atlanta treeman and he demonstrated the blakes hitch with a prusik foot loop and I though, so that is how it is done.... wow, have my eyes been opened since then. I went to the recent competition on Portland Oregon and trade show.........again....just WOW.
I see from Moss's posting that that is probably the "max", but I see where it would also be very helpful for the 10-20 foot horizontal moves in the same tree. Some of those that are just out of the long pole sort of reach. I'm not sure I want to be hauling around one of those long poles anyway. At any rate, I find all of this and what you guys do very impressive. I put this post on the "Recreational Tree Climbing thread" as that is pretty much what I am doing, although I would enjoy some tree work for the elderly or poor that cannot afford "the real pros". Taking down widow makers and downing dead hazardous trees and such.
So, again, thanks for your input and the pictures and video from Moss. I hope to go to Costa Rica and climb some of the giant trees they have, and moving around the tree with these methods will be awesome as opposed to getting back on the jungle floor.
Thanks and I would hope to have more input on this subject
P.S. Do you think I could supervise a crew from my chair? Maybe I could be the Boss.


View attachment 249780View attachment 249781

Supervisory position

Supervisory position

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My bad - hadn't noticed that I was replying in the rec climbing forum! I thought this was in 101.

Traversing as a recreational method is its own reward, a high traverse can be pretty exhilarating. I haven't done a lot of tree traversing because all my tree climbing is for production.... so even when you get to do t you often don't have time to savor the moment. I have some nice memories of doing tyrolean's between cliffs a few times, and with a large drop off below it certainly got the heart beating!

One point perhaps worth mentioning is to pay some care to the angle of the line between the trees. Some people are tempted to make the line as taught as possible because it makes for an easier traverse. The trouble is that a taught line will place enormous loads on the trees, and may cause structural failure in some cases. Be sure and make sure you're on a stem with good integrity, and try to keep the line loose-ish. 15 degrees of drop is enough that you've taken most of the load off.

When I travel between trees I often have a line set in each one from the ground. or sometimes use this technique for trimming large spreading trees without a good high point. When I'm ready to go to the second tree, I take up tension on both lines then dangle. I slowly pay out on the line from the tree I'm leaving, and as you do that you natural swing into the second tree. You obviously lose some altitude, but if you've got a few 100'+ trees to dead wood and they're near to each other and you don't have a wraptor then it can save a lot of rope work.

Shaun

Good stuff Shaun. Definitely in a production environment you'd have ground help to make it happen, so methods will be different. When I've set traverses with help on the ground or a climber in the other tree it goes real fast.

The ALB survey climbers in the northeast I've all talked to have very quick solo traverse techniques (no help from the ground). They have to cover so many trees in one day they can't mess around. Monkey fist flipped into the next tree and jammed into a crotch is a popular way to do it.

Also good heads up on tensioning a single rope traverse, no point in getting any kind of serious tension, as you said 15 degrees or greater is a good guideline. Load forces get increasingly insane when the angles get shallow. Be ready to have a good method to climb the incline going up the other end of the traverse (you need a progress capture). Some climbers I know refuse to use a toothed ascender for that purpose. I have but it's smart to advance and load an aggressively toothed ascender real gentle. Microcender is my favorite rope friendly progress capture.
-AJ

One way I've done it team climbing is go up, set the rope going across and have a climber on the ground anchor the rope at the base of the starting tree. That way multiple climbers can go across and the start side of the rope can be taken out from the ground when you're done for the day. Different ways to do it, both ends can be anchored on the ground as well if you have enough rope.
-AJ

"serious tension"

moss said:

Also good heads up on tensioning a single rope traverse, no point in getting any kind of serious tension, as you said 15 degrees or greater is a good guideline. Load forces get increasingly insane when the angles get shallow.
-AJ

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Just want to add some thoughts on the "serious tension" and dangers I see.
Let me just work a couple of thoughts.
If I set up a traverse from branch to branch or tree to tree and I go more than 120 degrees, I start to increase the force subjected to the anchors. Let us say for example I have two anchors next to each other, in other words I am hanging my weight between two branches and the rope is at, for all practical purposes, 180 degrees. (Not much of a traverse I know) I have shared my 200 pounds with each point making the force 100 pounds each branch. Now I spread the traverse and decrease the angle to 120 degrees, the force on each branch is now my full weight, 200 pounds, this is called the critical angle. If I continue to pull the traverse now to 15 degrees, I increase the force 383.1% or in this case 766 pounds of force on the branch. Now imagine if I have used a single rope and have it anchored on the ground below. Depending on the placement of the anchor, I could be doubling the force again becoming 1532 pounds. So unless I am pretty confident that I could park a Volkswagen on that branch, I may want to reconsider my setup. I have not even considered the fulcrum force or lateral force in pounds per foot at the base of a tree if it is placed from tree to tree and many feet above the ground. Further, let's just say you like it snug to make the traverse easy or someone wants to do a little tightrope walking and you pull on this single rope to 5 degrees. In this example, with a ground anchor, my 200 pounds now comes close to a whopping 5,000 pounds.)
So, Moss's comments about serious tension are VERY well founded.

Moss, etc.

I've climbed with Moss and saw him set a cool traverse; I was very impressed with his technique. Another place I saw tree-to-tree traverses set up was on that reality show called Heli-Loggers. This was a show based in western Canada and the guys had to climb 10, 15 maybe 20 trees a day, limb them on the way up and then top the tree at the right height such that the weight of the stem would allow a "sky crane" type helicopter to come in and pick off the stem. Many times, the trees were close enough together that the climber was able to throw a grapple from one tree to the other and then slide down the line and get into the other tree maybe 90 or 120 feet above the ground. If they could go from stem to stem this way, they'd increase their production a great deal.

As you guys mentioned, the standing stem loggers didn't try to set a straight across traverse, probably because their grapple would snap free if they put that much tension on it. They would slide down the line a good 20 or 30 degrees then lanyard in to the new tree.

Now that I'm thinking about it, they never really detailed how the climbers got their gear out of the first tree. That's something I'd like to know!

Cheers,
Bob

Just picked up a ZK2 Rope wrench a couple weeks ago, been busy seeing what I can do with it, here's some SRT traversing I did with it recently. The wrench makes swing traverses tree-to-tree much easier since you can safely position yourself on the outer crown of deciduous trees. And you can do some interesting stuff with the tail of the rope to bring yourself over to another tree.

[video=vimeo;51190593]https://vimeo.com/51190593[/video]

moss said:

Just picked up a ZK2 Rope wrench a couple weeks ago, been busy seeing what I can do with it, here's some SRT traversing I did with it recently. The wrench makes swing traverses tree-to-tree much easier since you can safely position yourself on the outer crown of deciduous trees. And you can do some interesting stuff with the tail of the rope to bring yourself over to another tree.

Click to expand...

Moss, your posts are always informative, educational and very well done. Thanks for sharing that. I wish I could be your camera guy so we could see YOU better doing this. Still, in spite of the difficulty self filming, VERY WELL DONE!
Thanks again

Thanks Smokey. Yep the video is missing some details, definitely tough to get things set up so everything's visible. Yep could use a camera man ;-)
-AJ

oak to oak - YouTube

this is one way to do it
my first day with the helmet cam and my first day out pruning oaks. Had to get major deadwood from two oaks in a yard.

Using a Horse Knot - YouTube

the last little bit iof this video is a ground shot of me doing the same technique for another tree to tree transfer

Both vids great! Thanks Kevin.

Cool thing about the Horse Knot use in the vid is the bight hockled and it still released
-AJ

kevin bingham said:

Using a Horse Knot - YouTube

the last little bit iof this video is a ground shot of me doing the same technique for another tree to tree transfer

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That is some amazing footage Kevin! We were talking abut using a helicopter or quad copter for filming in another thread and this is just the kind of stuff that would be awesome to see from that perspective. The swing at the end of the video as well, now that is a tree to tree traverse!