kamhillbilly
ArboristSite Lurker
What are you using for line insulation ,this is my plan...View attachment 49029
Any ideas or suggestions?Thanks
Any ideas or suggestions?Thanks
Last edited:
OWB line insulation
- Thread starter kamhillbilly
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Husky137
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thermopex is what I used. It was pricy at $12 a foot, but there is no chance of ground water leaking in and robbing heat, plus installation took all of 20 min. Cut to length, drop in trench, cover.
ericjeeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
Much cheaper ways
I used unsplit armorflex slid over the ends. Then laid two lies side by side then wrapped withfoil face bubble wrap. Then wrapped ot all tightly with shrink wrap. and shoved it all into a 5 inch piece of NON perforated corrugated tile. Then sprayed the ends of the tile full of High expansion foam.. to seal against water infiltration. I only buried mine less than a foot. The ground would freeze over it as if it was not even there.
I used unsplit armorflex slid over the ends. Then laid two lies side by side then wrapped withfoil face bubble wrap. Then wrapped ot all tightly with shrink wrap. and shoved it all into a 5 inch piece of NON perforated corrugated tile. Then sprayed the ends of the tile full of High expansion foam.. to seal against water infiltration. I only buried mine less than a foot. The ground would freeze over it as if it was not even there.
kamhillbilly
ArboristSite Lurker
Ive looked at that but way to pricey around here it runs about $ 16.50 a ft .I have 2 runs one 150' the other 120' and have all spring to build boxes.
kamhillbilly
ArboristSite Lurker
I thought of that buti didnt think that would have enough R value.The frost here is 4' or more sometimes.
BlueRidgeMark
Addicted to ArboristSite
I used to work for a manufactuerer's rep for commercial plumbing outfit. Industrial stuff. I learned a lot about insulated lines and heat loss, because that kind of stuff was one of the lines we carried. Based on what I know, I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for any of these home brew plans. Someone mentioned groundwater getting in, and that's only one of the things that can go wrong. It might work for a time, but it won't work OVER time.
To spend all that time, effort, and money, and then spoil it all with half baked DIY insulation, is penny wise and pound foolish.
To spend all that time, effort, and money, and then spoil it all with half baked DIY insulation, is penny wise and pound foolish.
ericjeeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
Biggest issues are water
Ground water is your worst enemy,.
If you get water next to the pipe at any point you efficientcy has went to hell in a hand basket.
I picked up a used central boiler yesterday resold it yesterday afternoon., The guy was removing it because it went from 10 rick a year to 40 ricks. he claims..
He felt water had breeched his piping insulation. I probably agree with his thinking. He used the system for 8 years at ten rick a year, Then a sudden jump to I can't keep enough wood in it tells me the heat is going somewhere.
So Make sure you use a good corrugated pipe and seal off any openings 110% water tight.
Remember ground water is the biggest enemy to the systems integrity.
Ground water is your worst enemy,.
If you get water next to the pipe at any point you efficientcy has went to hell in a hand basket.
I picked up a used central boiler yesterday resold it yesterday afternoon., The guy was removing it because it went from 10 rick a year to 40 ricks. he claims..
He felt water had breeched his piping insulation. I probably agree with his thinking. He used the system for 8 years at ten rick a year, Then a sudden jump to I can't keep enough wood in it tells me the heat is going somewhere.
So Make sure you use a good corrugated pipe and seal off any openings 110% water tight.
Remember ground water is the biggest enemy to the systems integrity.
If your likely to have water problems like me(I've lived in 2 houses in low swamy areas) I made the insulated pipe as water proof as possible but also put pea stone and drain tile underneath it . (pipes only about a foot deep). I then put a sump barrel next to the line so I can see if there is any water in it. None in my new house. Old house I'd get some in the spring. Another option I considered was leaving the pipe above ground and build some sort of super-insulated shelter over it, but both have gone under drives.
BC_Logger
ArboristSite Guru
question for you all why dont you spray foam the pipes ?
ericjeeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
I had seriously considered
But with the armorflex and the bubble wrap I knew the pipe was not laying down against the corrugated. The spray foam would be the best.. if you had a way to keep the pipe off the bottom when you sprayed. Maybe you could use concrete "Chairs"
But with the armorflex and the bubble wrap I knew the pipe was not laying down against the corrugated. The spray foam would be the best.. if you had a way to keep the pipe off the bottom when you sprayed. Maybe you could use concrete "Chairs"
kamhillbilly
ArboristSite Lurker
That would probably(spelling?) work if it was pulled tight and straight with concrete "Chairs then sray foam it or how about that two part foam used in boats if you had a couple of tees facing up you could pour it in.Depends on cost of foam of course.
hockeypuck
ArboristSite Operative
themopex
Thermopex. Do not do anything else. Bury it 18 to 24 inches down. end of story.
Thermopex. Do not do anything else. Bury it 18 to 24 inches down. end of story.
BlueRidgeMark
Addicted to ArboristSite
Unjacketed foam in a trench? You are deluding yourself, and wasting your money. Foam cracks.
Hockeypuck is right.
ericjeeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
Foam.. we are talking about spraying it into a pipe
I am atleast and I assume the other poster was too. My thought was to put the pipe into a field tile and then fill it with foam. but the pex needs to be isolted from eachother as well as away from the corrugated pipe./
I am atleast and I assume the other poster was too. My thought was to put the pipe into a field tile and then fill it with foam. but the pex needs to be isolted from eachother as well as away from the corrugated pipe./
ktm250rider
ArboristSite Operative
To keep the pex centered in the pipe, just use some spacers. If the pipe ID is 4in, cut a 4in disk and put 2 holes in it. Slide the spacer over your pex, and then into the pipe.
this will be just fine.
to anyone that thinks they are losing heat cause of bad pipe insulation and then losing sleep over it try this.
shut off your water from the boiler so no water is leaving the waterjacket and bring it up to temp and time how long it takes to drop 20 degrees .
then
bypass all your exchangers to make a loop in the house end of the system bring your boiler up to temp and see how long that takes to drop 20.
if you are loosing alot into the ground this will for sure tell you .
I have heard all the stories on how a so called bad instalation was the major cause of heat loss and poor system fuction.
I have had many sleepless nights from reading stuff on the net and forums.
the thermopex is great if you have $4500 and in my case i needed 300 feet at $20 a foot is 6 grand and if i had that much i would just let the gas run and forget the boiler.
I see no reason that a boiler install should cost 10 grand !!!
but if water is a problem go to ebay and lookup this guy
it is in drain pipe that will keep water out..
http://cgi.ebay.com/OUTDOOR-WOOD-FU...104500136QQcategoryZ20598QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I have my house run with this and my greenhouse run done that way you have described and all is well.
oh and one more thing I have frozen my system lines and o2 barrier pex will crack and need to be replaced !!!!!
the house side is wirsbo so freez it all you want and no problems.
shayne
hockeypuck
ArboristSite Operative
It must be dry where you are, because if you had put that pipe below the water table, you would not like the results.
I see your point
why would you build in an area that has water 18 to 24 inches under the ground??
a water table that high is going to give you alot of problems and you most likely wont be able to have a basement.
kamhillbilly
ArboristSite Lurker
Thanks for all the input I think my plan (View attachment 49382 )I have no issue with ground water in my location , and I also priced out styrofoam SM across the border in Duluth MN found it to be half price with exchange on the dollar.Again thanks
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