Bar lenght verus power question

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bobha8

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I just bought an echo cs-400 on the bay and it comes with an 18" bar at 40cc. Every thing I read on this forum says it should have a 16" max bar on it. I have a question on that- is it because it would cut slower or bog down if you use all18" or is it because you get more power some how form the 16" bar.

I guess while I am asking questions is the bailey's 16" abor max bar wiht there non-safety chain ok for a home owner saw? I cut about 5 cord of wood a year and some bowl blanks for twood turning.

Thanks for your help

Bob
 
I have seen this "rule" tossed around in some of these posts, and it makes sense...

The 1/3 rule- the bar length should not exceed 1/3 the cc's of a saw. For example, if I have a 60cc saw, then it should run a 20 inch bar without problem. This is a very general rule, and depends on any saw modifications, type of wood, chain type, etc.

Your 40cc saw should run a 14 or 16 at the most- an 18" bar seems like a lot, depending again on the situation. The longer bar adds some resistance and saps a bit of power.

Whatever you do, use protection. :rock: Then, when you run your saw, strap on your PPE... :D
 
I wouldn't put money into a shorter bar untill you give the 18" a try. I am not familiar with the power of that saw but I would give it a try and see how it feels to you.

Ultimately you have to be happy with how it cuts, and since you already have the 18", give it a try.

I would not recommend a "non-safety" chain for any home owner saw. especially one that light. Kick backs happen quick and you don't get a do-over with a chainsaw.

Good luck, and be safe

Fred
 
I have seen this "rule" tossed around in some of these posts, and it makes sense...

The 1/3 rule- the bar length should not exceed 1/3 the cc's of a saw. For example, if I have a 60cc saw, then it should run a 20 inch bar without problem. This is a very general rule, and depends on any saw modifications, type of wood, chain type, etc.

Your 40cc saw should run a 14 or 16 at the most- an 18" bar seems like a lot, depending again on the situation. The longer bar adds some resistance and saps a bit of power.

Whatever you do, use protection. :rock: Then, when you run your saw, strap on your PPE... :D


Nice post Skipdog9 thanks for that info!
 
My 2 cents...

I'd pull the bar and chain off before you ever start the saw, and resell that combo on eBay. You should be able to get $25-30 + shipping for it.

40cc saws can pull 18" bars, but it isn't a terribly exciting process. I would definitely consider swapping down to a 16" or 14" bar; I'd probably choose 14" if it was my saw, after being happy with the balance and handling of my 38cc Husqvarna with a 13" bar.
 
My 2 cents...

I'd pull the bar and chain off before you ever start the saw, and resell that combo on eBay. You should be able to get $25-30 + shipping for it.

40cc saws can pull 18" bars, but it isn't a terribly exciting process. I would definitely consider swapping down to a 16" or 14" bar; I'd probably choose 14" if it was my saw, after being happy with the balance and handling of my 38cc Husqvarna with a 13" bar.

+1
 
I've got to go with Computeruser on this one. You'll be running lo-pro series chain on that saw and the 18" bar won't be terribly good. It probably came with a 91vg chain. Put it up on ebay and spend the money you make on it and get yourself a shorter bar and buy 91vx/Stihl PMN or Bailey's branded chain that is non-safety chain. I have a 42cc Craftsman w/18" and it cuts slow with the 18 but slightly better with a 16" bar.
 
smaller bar!

Originally Posted by computeruser
My 2 cents...

I'd pull the bar and chain off before you ever start the saw, and resell that combo on eBay. You should be able to get $25-30 + shipping for it.

40cc saws can pull 18" bars, but it isn't a terribly exciting process. I would definitely consider swapping down to a 16" or 14" bar; I'd probably choose 14" if it was my saw, after being happy with the balance and handling of my 38cc Husqvarna with a 13" bar.

+3
 
I have a client that used a 5 foot bar on an ELECTRIC chainsaw at his work. He works for weta workshop (who do props and special effects for king kong, lord of the rings etc) and they use it for cutting polystyrene for making models.
 
We have the larger CS-510 (2) and it is maxxed out with an 18" bar, even though Echo rates it for up to a 20" bar. We also had a CS-440, the next saw up from the 400, and it was not comfortable with an 18" bar, did OK, but really shined with the 16" bar.

Echo saws make decent power, not overly impressive anyplace, at least the ones we have tried, aside from the older reed valve engines, which cut WAY too slow for my liking.

We keep hearing that all of our Echo saws are going to develope some sort of "death rattle". Interesting that we have an Echo garden tiller, leaf blower (2), string trimmer, and just about every saw in their line-up, and haven't had the first trouble with any of the engines. We have actually logged many hundreds of hours on our two CS-510's, one of which is loaned out to a friend who heats his home and shop with firewood, and cuts about 15-20 cords of wood a year with it.

We did find with all of the Echo saws we aquired, that the carburetors required custom settings, they were WAY too lean as delivered, which probably would have led to early engine failure? In any case, ours all went lean in the cut, so it was obvious that they needed more fuel.

I also opened up the mufflers on a couple of them. It didn't make much difference for the CS-510, but a dramatic improvement on the CS-360 top handle. Your CS-400 if newer production may use a catalyst muffler and respond well to opening it up some?

Echo also uses very "low" quality chains, we quickly burn them up and put real chains on them. They respond by cutting faster with less effort. I would run the 18" set-up till the chain is toast, and replace it with a 16" bar and real chain....FWIW.....Cliff
 
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My cs-400.

I also bought a cs-400 new off of ebay. I can't say how it runs with the 18", since I immediately took it off and put on a 16" (arbormax amp 16EJ50 running woodsmanpro wpl 1630LP56). I used the 16" combo to cut down and cut up some maple and ash stumps (12" diameters) and it worked fine with no bogging down.
 
If your going to be cutting bigger trees with the bar buried a lot get a 16 or 14, if your cutting smaller trees it's not going to make much difference if you have a 14 ,16 or 18. Get a good square corner chiesel chain and hang on to the saw good. As Cliff mentioned lots of saws come set too lean and only get worse with ethonal. If your saw bogs easy or hesitates when you crack the throttle get it adjusted richer before you run it. Steve
 
Minimum of 2.75cc per inch of bar, recommended 3.0 - 3.25cc per inch:

12" bar = 33cc min, 36-39cc recommended
14" bar = 38.5cc min, 42-45.5cc recommended
16" bar = 44cc min, 48-52cc recommended
18" bar = 49.5cc min, 54-58.5cc recommended
20" bar = 55cc min, 60-65cc recommended

If the saw has a muffler mod, lower the cc/inch of bar by 0.1cc
 
I also opened up the mufflers on a couple of them. It didn't make much difference for the CS-510, but a dramatic improvement on the CS-360 top handle. Your CS-400 if newer production may use a catalyst muffler and respond well to opening it up some?

Thanks for the help guys, looks like a new 16" arbormax combo will be on it's way.

What exactly do you do to "open the muffler up"?

Bob
 
On the 510, just the opening where the exhaust gasses exit. A little at a time I opened it up with a carbide cutter to see if the restriction was hurting power some? It basically just got louder, with at most a very slight increase in high rpm performance.

The CS-360 is a completely different story. So far I just opened up the exit hole in the muffler, and removed the screen. It responded quite well, making more power at every rpm. I was told those mufflers are restrictive to make the catalyst work effectively?......Cliff
 
I've got to go with Computeruser on this one. You'll be running lo-pro series chain on that saw and the 18" bar won't be terribly good. It probably came with a 91vg chain. Put it up on ebay and spend the money you make on it and get yourself a shorter bar and buy 91vx/Stihl PMN or Bailey's branded chain that is non-safety chain. I have a 42cc Craftsman w/18" and it cuts slow with the 18 but slightly better with a 16" bar.
Muffler mod the Craftsman and put a real chain on it, big difference. Still not really fast, but cuts decent.
 
Muffler mod the Craftsman and put a real chain on it, big difference. Still not really fast, but cuts decent.

I don't think there is much of a way of getting 42cc to pull an 18" bar no matter the type of chain and/or muffler mod. But I'd love to be proven wrong, I have a wild thing sitting around that I'd love to be able to use more than 14" of the 18" bar.
 
I don't think there is much of a way of getting 42cc to pull an 18" bar no matter the type of chain and/or muffler mod. But I'd love to be proven wrong, I have a wild thing sitting around that I'd love to be able to use more than 14" of the 18" bar.
It cuts, not anywhere near my MS460, but for cutting dirty junk wood, it does ok. Too many people are hung up on "cutting fast" and the "ultimate bar to cc/power ratio.
 
My 2 cents...

I'd pull the bar and chain off before you ever start the saw, and resell that combo on eBay. You should be able to get $25-30 + shipping for it.

40cc saws can pull 18" bars, but it isn't a terribly exciting process. I would definitely consider swapping down to a 16" or 14" bar; I'd probably choose 14" if it was my saw, after being happy with the balance and handling of my 38cc Husqvarna with a 13" bar.


I've got to go with Computeruser on this one. You'll be running lo-pro series chain on that saw and the 18" bar won't be terribly good. It probably came with a 91vg chain. Put it up on ebay and spend the money you make on it and get yourself a shorter bar and buy 91vx/Stihl PMN or Bailey's branded chain that is non-safety chain. I have a 42cc Craftsman w/18" and it cuts slow with the 18 but slightly better with a 16" bar.

+4, or something like that.......:)
 
We have the larger CS-510 (2) and it is maxxed out with an 18" bar, even though Echo rates it for up to a 20" bar. We also had a CS-440, the next saw up from the 400, and it was not comfortable with an 18" bar, did OK, but really shined with the 16" bar.

Echo saws make decent power, not overly impressive anyplace, at least the ones we have tried, aside from the older reed valve engines, which cut WAY too slow for my liking.

We keep hearing that all of our Echo saws are going to develope some sort of "death rattle". Interesting that we have an Echo garden tiller, leaf blower (2), string trimmer, and just about every saw in their line-up, and haven't had the first trouble with any of the engines. We have actually logged many hundreds of hours on our two CS-510's, one of which is loaned out to a friend who heats his home and shop with firewood, and cuts about 15-20 cords of wood a year with it.

We did find with all of the Echo saws we aquired, that the carburetors required custom settings, they were WAY too lean as delivered, which probably would have led to early engine failure? In any case, ours all went lean in the cut, so it was obvious that they needed more fuel.

I also opened up the mufflers on a couple of them. It didn't make much difference for the CS-510, but a dramatic improvement on the CS-360 top handle. Your CS-400 if newer production may use a catalyst muffler and respond well to opening it up some?

Echo also uses very "low" quality chains, we quickly burn them up and put real chains on them. They respond by cutting faster with less effort. I would run the 18" set-up till the chain is toast, and replace it with a 16" bar and real chain....FWIW.....Cliff


Very interesting Cliff, my experience with my CS-440 mirrors yours to a "T". My carb was so lean I thought the thing was going to get itself airborne, it wound up so high! After a few cuts the plug was gray/white so I had to take the caps off and richen it up significantly. After that it has been a really good little saw. I like how smooth the anti-vibe is and I like how quiet it is also. It dosen't compare to my freshly redone 026 but power wise but I still like it fine. I understand why some folks turn up their noses at the Echos but they do make well thought out, reliable tools that are fine for their intended use.
 
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