Best homeowner saw (specifics in message)

[fields_mj]

not super up on the vocabulary--clone isn't a brand, right? It's a clone of something like a Stihl weedeater? Just Google 'clone'? Any I want specifically and these are more durable than the Troy Bilt fleet? They take the same attachments?

I ment to send this yesterday, but forgot to hit "Post Reply".... lol

Clone, as in a new Chinese clone of an old proven design. I bought this one specifically for dealing with Honeysuckle. One of the best purchases that I've made. I have no misconceptions about it being top quality. I bought it to keep from tearing up my more expensive (and smaller) trimmer.

https://www.farmertec.com/US-STOCK-...o5mbaYZvQOd88eQDyDbJfeGpv9lRzr5UaAhzJEALw_wcB

Here's the blade I run on it.

https://www.amazon.com/Forester-Cha...1491-B00I548C9Y-&hvexpln=73&gad_source=1&th=1

The combination of the two will rip through a 1-1/2" sapling and not know its there. I also have a Stihl FS56 trimmer that I've run that blade on. It was really hard on the trimmers drive train, and I had to give the trimmer a couple of seconds to get the RPM up before hitting a sapling with it. With the bigger trimmer, there's very little delay between hitting the throttle, and the heavy blade reaching full rpm. I've gone through downed limbs that were too thick to cut from one side, but that gets tricky because they do want to twist and pinch the blade.

If you're dragging it out and piling it up, I can see where its going to take a lot longer.

Crossbow is a concentrated mix of glyphosate and triclopyr. You mix 6 oz of it with a gallon of diesel fuel, and hit the freshly cut stump with it. It's intended to use on woody plants including ivy, and does a pretty good job.

They 034 was a fantastic saw in its day. Looks like they started making them in 1984. With the 034 Super, they increased the bore diameter from 46mm to 48mm. Other than that, there were very few changes to the saw until the MS361 was released in 2004 (I think). Today, the current MS261 has almost as much power as a MS362, so it makes more sense to go with a 261 and then jump to something like a new MS400, 462, 500i, or even a 661 depending on how big you really want to go. I will say that if you need something as big and heavy as a 661, it's nice to have something in between (more power than the 261, less weight than the the 661).

My standard advice for chainsaws is to look at how you use it. I don't care so much about how often you use the tool. I care more about how many hours you normally run it on the days that you do use it. If you're going to walk out of the garage with the saw in your hand, start it, run a tank of fuel through it, and then put it away, then the lighter weight / higher output of a "pro" saw really isn't worth spending money on. On the other hand, if once you start the saw you put in a solid 8 to 12hrs of work before putting it away, a "pro" saw is worth every penny. It's kind of like a lawn mower. If you live in town and can mow your yard in 30 min with a single blade ride on, it really doesn't matter if you mow 3x a week year round, the only reason to buy a better mower is for bragging rights. Conversely, if you're mowing 8 hrs at a time, it doesn't matter if you only do it 4 times a year, a good mower is going to make a big difference in how you feel at the end of the day. Chainsaws are dangerous, so getting to the end of a full day's work and still having a little steam left in the tank goes a long ways towards not making stupid mistakes that can get you seriously injured.

I'll also say that I just don't know anything about Echo saws. Everyone seems to like them, and I've not seen anyone complain about them to any level of significance.

Either way, I'd be looking at a big string trimmer and a pro class 50cc saw that puts out close to 4hp. That should be enough to get a lot of work done. After using that combination for a year, decide if you need something bigger. If you do decide you need a bigger saw, step up to something in the 70cc or larger range. If the need for a bigger saw exists, but it would likely not get used often, there are also Clone chainsaws (which is a hotly debated topic on here). Limited use is one application where the big Clone saws shine. That said, if you can find a used 066/660/661, they are comparatively inexpensive to rebuild. Specifically, their pistons cost about half of what you would expect. I just priced them last week and my dealer charges $100 for a piston that fits an 064 (86cc), but less than $50 for a piston that fits an 066 (92cc).

 

[sean donato]

I ment to send this yesterday, but forgot to hit "Post Reply".... lol

Clone, as in a new Chinese clone of an old proven design. I bought this one specifically for dealing with Honeysuckle. One of the best purchases that I've made. I have no misconceptions about it being top quality. I bought it to keep from tearing up my more expensive (and smaller) trimmer.

https://www.farmertec.com/US-STOCK-...o5mbaYZvQOd88eQDyDbJfeGpv9lRzr5UaAhzJEALw_wcB

Here's the blade I run on it.

https://www.amazon.com/Forester-Cha...1491-B00I548C9Y-&hvexpln=73&gad_source=1&th=1

The combination of the two will rip through a 1-1/2" sapling and not know its there. I also have a Stihl FS56 trimmer that I've run that blade on. It was really hard on the trimmers drive train, and I had to give the trimmer a couple of seconds to get the RPM up before hitting a sapling with it. With the bigger trimmer, there's very little delay between hitting the throttle, and the heavy blade reaching full rpm. I've gone through downed limbs that were too thick to cut from one side, but that gets tricky because they do want to twist and pinch the blade.

If you're dragging it out and piling it up, I can see where its going to take a lot longer.

Crossbow is a concentrated mix of glyphosate and triclopyr. You mix 6 oz of it with a gallon of diesel fuel, and hit the freshly cut stump with it. It's intended to use on woody plants including ivy, and does a pretty good job.

They 034 was a fantastic saw in its day. Looks like they started making them in 1984. With the 034 Super, they increased the bore diameter from 46mm to 48mm. Other than that, there were very few changes to the saw until the MS361 was released in 2004 (I think). Today, the current MS261 has almost as much power as a MS362, so it makes more sense to go with a 261 and then jump to something like a new MS400, 462, 500i, or even a 661 depending on how big you really want to go. I will say that if you need something as big and heavy as a 661, it's nice to have something in between (more power than the 261, less weight than the the 661).

My standard advice for chainsaws is to look at how you use it. I don't care so much about how often you use the tool. I care more about how many hours you normally run it on the days that you do use it. If you're going to walk out of the garage with the saw in your hand, start it, run a tank of fuel through it, and then put it away, then the lighter weight / higher output of a "pro" saw really isn't worth spending money on. On the other hand, if once you start the saw you put in a solid 8 to 12hrs of work before putting it away, a "pro" saw is worth every penny. It's kind of like a lawn mower. If you live in town and can mow your yard in 30 min with a single blade ride on, it really doesn't matter if you mow 3x a week year round, the only reason to buy a better mower is for bragging rights. Conversely, if you're mowing 8 hrs at a time, it doesn't matter if you only do it 4 times a year, a good mower is going to make a big difference in how you feel at the end of the day. Chainsaws are dangerous, so getting to the end of a full day's work and still having a little steam left in the tank goes a long ways towards not making stupid mistakes that can get you seriously injured.

I'll also say that I just don't know anything about Echo saws. Everyone seems to like them, and I've not seen anyone complain about them to any level of significance.

Either way, I'd be looking at a big string trimmer and a pro class 50cc saw that puts out close to 4hp. That should be enough to get a lot of work done. After using that combination for a year, decide if you need something bigger. If you do decide you need a bigger saw, step up to something in the 70cc or larger range. If the need for a bigger saw exists, but it would likely not get used often, there are also Clone chainsaws (which is a hotly debated topic on here). Limited use is one application where the big Clone saws shine. That said, if you can find a used 066/660/661, they are comparatively inexpensive to rebuild. Specifically, their pistons cost about half of what you would expect. I just priced them last week and my dealer charges $100 for a piston that fits an 064 (86cc), but less than $50 for a piston that fits an 066 (92cc).

If he wasn't intent on being so cheap everyone would reccomend a ms400 and call it a day.

 

[sean donato]

@Bob Hedgecutter ok, I'll give honorable mention the a 562xp and the cs 590 too, but tell me I'm wrong. Lol

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

@Bob Hedgecutter ok, I'll give honorable mention the a 562xp and the cs 590 too, but tell me I'm wrong. Lol

Its just the whole secondhand cheap scenario for serious work- odd time you might win, more often you wont.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

Its just the whole secondhand cheap scenario for serious work- odd time you might win, more often you wont.

Used saws are for gamblers and guys who like to tinker.

 

[fields_mj]

Used saws are for gamblers and guys who like to tinker.

Depends on how much work you have to do, and how much money you actually have. If you only need it for a year, it's probably fine. Not everyone can afford a grand for a tool that their paycheck depends on. For those on a tight budget, it's more cost effective to buy a used saw, and then spend the nickes and dimes over the course of time to keep it running. My 036 cost me $200 15 years ago, and has been my go to saw ever since. I'm rebuilding now. New OEM top end is around $200, but a new OEM piston is only $90 (my cylinder was fine). New seals, bearings, and gaskets was another $60 or so. So I'm into a complete rebuild for $150, and a six pack of beer to a buddy for splitting the case. An MS400 is certainly a better saw, but my old 036 is more than enough for cutting my firewood, and at a total of $350 for 30 years of service, I can't see where the MS400 would be worth the investment.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

Depends on how much work you have to do, and how much money you actually have. If you only need it for a year, it's probably fine. Not everyone can afford a grand for a tool that their paycheck depends on. For those on a tight budget, it's more cost effective to buy a used saw, and then spend the nickes and dimes over the course of time to keep it running. My 036 cost me $200 15 years ago, and has been my go to saw ever since. I'm rebuilding now. New OEM top end is around $200, but a new OEM piston is only $90 (my cylinder was fine). New seals, bearings, and gaskets was another $60 or so. So I'm into a complete rebuild for $150, and a six pack of beer to a buddy for splitting the case. An MS400 is certainly a better saw, but my old 036 is more than enough for cutting my firewood, and at a total of $350 for 30 years of service, I can't see where the MS400 would be worth the investment.

So you won the gamble and you like to tinker. QED.

 

[sean donato]

Depends on how much work you have to do, and how much money you actually have. If you only need it for a year, it's probably fine. Not everyone can afford a grand for a tool that their paycheck depends on. For those on a tight budget, it's more cost effective to buy a used saw, and then spend the nickes and dimes over the course of time to keep it running. My 036 cost me $200 15 years ago, and has been my go to saw ever since. I'm rebuilding now. New OEM top end is around $200, but a new OEM piston is only $90 (my cylinder was fine). New seals, bearings, and gaskets was another $60 or so. So I'm into a complete rebuild for $150, and a six pack of beer to a buddy for splitting the case. An MS400 is certainly a better saw, but my old 036 is more than enough for cutting my firewood, and at a total of $350 for 30 years of service, I can't see where the MS400 would be worth the investment.

$200.00 15 years ago is more like $600.00 today. I like to rebuild saws just as much as the next guy. Unless you get the saw for free or next to it it's not worth rebuilding. Putting 3/4 the cost of a new into something and not counting your time as worth anything is just justification to yourself that youre saving money, when in reality you're not. I truthfully don't care either way, but being honest about time and value it's not worth it for a work saw.

 

[fields_mj]

$200.00 15 years ago is more like $600.00 today. I like to rebuild saws just as much as the next guy. Unless you get the saw for free or next to it it's not worth rebuilding. Putting 3/4 the cost of a new into something and not counting your time as worth anything is just justification to yourself that youre saving money, when in reality you're not. I truthfully don't care either way, but being honest about time and value it's not worth it for a work saw.

Oddly enough, the cost of chainsaws hasn't gone up nearly as much as everything else over the past 15 years. At the time, I could have bought a new MS361 for around $600, so the price has gone up a little over 50%. Your point is valid though. You ARE saving money, but it's costing time. You can make more money, you can't make more time. If it's an option, the wise move is to spend money and not time, but that's not an option that everybody has. I'm definitely in the category of liking to tinker with things, but I'm not usually in the category of having the time to do so which is why my 064 has been sitting on the shelf waiting to get rebuilt for 3 years now. Even if I couldn't or wouldn't have been able to rebuild the saw, I got 15 years of service out of a saw that cost me the equivalent of $300-$400 today. To me, that was a good investment of my resources.

I would also agree with the statement that a person who doesn't like to tinker probably shouldn't get a used saw, but I'd expand that to say that they probably shouldn't try to bother with cutting their own firewood, or clearing a tract of land in this case. I'll also agree that if a used saw isn't in good running order, it should be free or very close to it. I've never understood why people are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on a used Stihl that doesn't run.

 

[fields_mj]

So you won the gamble and you like to tinker. QED.

I won the gamble 5 times in a row, 11 if you include my $2,500 loader from 1983, a used wood burner from 1980, 2 used pickup trucks ('93, '00), and 3 used cars that all went past 300k miles so I'd say the odds must be pretty good. You can do serious work with well used equipment, but it will usually take longer and/or require more work. I'd never recommend going too far down the "Used" rabbit hole if you're trying to make a living at it.

 

[StihlsawuserMS361]

Agree, always buy more than you think you'll need, because someday you'll be wishing for more. Larger saws seem to hold their value when or if ever you decide to sell. A hundred or so extra now wards off wishing you did down the road....

 

[sean donato]

I won the gamble 5 times in a row, 11 if you include my $2,500 loader from 1983, a used wood burner from 1980, 2 used pickup trucks ('93, '00), and 3 used cars that all went past 300k miles so I'd say the odds must be pretty good. You can do serious work with well used equipment, but it will usually take longer and/or require more work. I'd never recommend going too far down the "Used" rabbit hole if you're trying to make a living at it.

Car and equipment is a different version of used vs small power equipment. I rarely see the corelation when they are compared. Mostly because it's an entirely different machine with little in common other then being powered by an engine.
It's far to easy to hide stuff on hand held equipment and claim junk is gold, especially if it's an internet buy and shipping is involved. Seen that too many times, then had to tell the poor smuck that it's gonna be a coupple hundred to make it right. For every rough diamond there are 100 straight up turds. You need to be able to tell them apart, and most just can't.
with the options available, and knowing it's not going to get used hard for long, used just isnt an option unless you're confident you can tell the turds from diamonds and fix the turd you settled on. Or just spend that $300-400 on a new, well respected, with a comprehensive warranty even if not top of the line saw.
I do have to agree on the time thing, I have less and less to spend screwing around with equipment that isn't reliable, and if I'm on a paying job, or helping my logging buddy out I need my stuff to work. Looking for parts for a 20 year old saw is out of the question. My time is far too valuable to screw around like that.

 

[LuDookie]

Logically you want a pro 40-50cc saw. You've pretty much clearly stated you don't want to spend new money. I get the impression you're not familiar enough with saws to go the used route without trepidation.
Go buy an echo. Not the highest power, kinda heavy for the size saw. But they are absurdly simple and reliable. (I mean their design hasn't changed much since the 80's, doesn't get anymore simple.) Recently got to run a friend's cs400, decent saw for its size. Underpowered for the 20" bar that was on it. I'd wager it would have been quite happy with a 16" bar on it. They have several newer models to choose from as well. 4010, 4510 and 4910. The 400 and 501 should be available too.

I’d second the Echo cs400. They last forever under some pretty harsh circumstances but they come with a couple of caveats. The mufflers have a cat converter in them, which is ridiculous, and needs to be removed. If you take the muffler off, you can easily get to it from the back and drill and pull it all out with needle-nose pliers. You’ll also want to tune it. Other than that, they are tough as nails and cost $300 new.

 

[holeycow]

So there goes the warranty.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

I’d second the Echo cs400. They last forever under some pretty harsh circumstances but they come with a couple of caveats. The mufflers have a cat converter in them, which is ridiculous, and needs to be removed. If you take the muffler off, you can easily get to it from the back and drill and pull it all out with needle-nose pliers. You’ll also want to tune it. Other than that, they are tough as nails and cost $300 new.

I hogged one out with a 7/8" carborundum hole saw. On another one I heated up the seam with MAP gas and separated the two halves.

So there goes the warranty.

That's why you buy a spare off eBay. Same with the limiter caps.

 

[LuDookie]

So there goes the warranty.

Not worth owning a 40cc saw with a warranty and a cat converter. I’ve no experience, and had good luck reliability wise with Echo, but from what I’ve gathered, a lot of the hate you’ll get for Echos stems from them shafting people with their “warranty”.

 

[LuDookie]

My pick would be the cs400 for a small saw and a cs590 for a bigger saw. I’m actually quite fond of the Husqy Rancher saws, for what they are, but with them or Stihl mid-grade, you pay a lot more.

 

[fre1102]

I ment to send this yesterday, but forgot to hit "Post Reply".... lol

Clone, as in a new Chinese clone of an old proven design. I bought this one specifically for dealing with Honeysuckle. One of the best purchases that I've made. I have no misconceptions about it being top quality. I bought it to keep from tearing up my more expensive (and smaller) trimmer.

Outstanding. I'll buy one.

https://www.farmertec.com/US-STOCK-...o5mbaYZvQOd88eQDyDbJfeGpv9lRzr5UaAhzJEALw_wcB

But that one is out of stock, and so is the other one with similar displacement (a copy of a a Husqvarna 143R?) is also out of stock. Are you familiar enough to know if that website restocks them, or should I just look for it somewhere else on the internet?

Here's the blade I run on it.

https://www.amazon.com/Forester-Cha...1491-B00I548C9Y-&hvexpln=73&gad_source=1&th=1

Yup. That's the exact one I've got, too.

The combination of the two will rip through a 1-1/2" sapling and not know its there. I also have a Stihl FS56 trimmer that I've run that blade on. It was really hard on the trimmers drive train, and I had to give the trimmer a couple of seconds to get the RPM up before hitting a sapling with it.

That's exactly what I have to do with the circular saw blade--let it get up to speed then take off a little at a time. I can't just hold the blade into it.

If you're dragging it out and piling it up, I can see where its going to take a lot longer.

Cut it down, kick it out of the way. Put down the saw, away from work area. BE CAREFUL--IT'S A RUNNING CHAINSAW, FOR GOD'S SAKE, saw brake or no saw brake. Kill the saw because I don't want to walk away from a running chainsaw. Retrieve spray bottle. Spray the stump. Hot start the saw. The Poulan doesn't like hot starting. Repeat on next bastard plant. Later, drag into an open area near the truck. Cut it into 6-foot sections to fit into the bed. Drive full beds to the recycler-mulcher. The nicest ones grow up, and are mostly straight. The ones growing out, twisted from looking for light from the understorey are the ones that take the longest. Bonus points when they've got vines growing through them.

Alternatively, rent a chipper. The chipper is faaaaaaaaaaaaar more fun and satisfying but I think I have enough mulch to last a long while now and it's most cost-effective to rent the mulcher for a day. The size of the piles of fallen material that equals about a day of chipping become really unpleasant to deal with. Especially after they've been sitting long enough to dry and become brittle. I also feel like adding the chipper is adding another machine eager to kill someone. It only needs to get lucky once, you have to be lucky every time.

More fun to chip. Probably a better idea to haul it off a truckload at a time.

Crossbow is a concentrated mix of glyphosate and triclopyr. You mix 6 oz of it with a gallon of diesel fuel, and hit the freshly cut stump with it. It's intended to use on woody plants including ivy, and does a pretty good job.

I'll give it a shot. Honeysuckle is as bad as kudzu. Actually probably worse.

They 034 was a fantastic saw in its day. Looks like they started making them in 1984. With the 034 Super, they increased the bore diameter from 46mm to 48mm. Other than that, there were very few changes to the saw until the MS361 was released in 2004 (I think). Today, the current MS261 has almost as much power as a MS362, so it makes more sense to go with a 261 and then jump to something like a new MS400, 462, 500i, or even a 661 depending on how big you really want to go. I will say that if you need something as big and heavy as a 661, it's nice to have something in between (more power than the 261, less weight than the the 661).

The 261 (it wasn't a 260, I was wrong) is a lot further drive and I'm a little nervous about the guy specifically, but it seems to start and run well. The 034 guy just seems like he's moved on from a saw that old.

I could just buy the 261 and the 034 and have a backup, I guess. The Dolmar is still available, too.

My standard advice for chainsaws is to look at how you use it. I don't care so much about how often you use the tool. I care more about how many hours you normally run it on the days that you do use it. If you're going to walk out of the garage with the saw in your hand, start it, run a tank of fuel through it, and then put it away, then the lighter weight / higher output of a "pro" saw really isn't worth spending money on. On the other hand, if once you start the saw you put in a solid 8 to 12hrs of work before putting it away, a "pro" saw is worth every penny.

I agree with this. Sometimes I'll only use it for 30 minutes. Other times it'll be most of a day. The Poulan seems to be good for about an hour before something needs adjusting or it doesn't like to start as well. Just being able to start it easily on hour six would be worth the extra money.

Either way, I'd be looking at a big string trimmer and a pro class 50cc saw that puts out close to 4hp. That should be enough to get a lot of work done. After using that combination for a year, decide if you need something bigger.

That's how I ended up with the Poulan, and I feel like it's time to graduate up.

If you do decide you need a bigger saw, step up to something in the 70cc or larger range. If the need for a bigger saw exists, but it would likely not get used often, there are also Clone chainsaws (which is a hotly debated topic on here).

There are four or five trees on the property that need a really long bar. That seems like the use case for either one of those clones or hiring someone. I guess if I have a really big saw I could be looking for larger trees for firewood, but I don't go through that much firewood.

Limited use is one application where the big Clone saws shine. That said, if you can find a used 066/660/661, they are comparatively inexpensive to rebuild. Specifically, their pistons cost about half of what you would expect. I just priced them last week and my dealer charges $100 for a piston that fits an 064 (86cc), but less than $50 for a piston that fits an 066 (92cc).

I can be looking.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[fre1102]

Even if I couldn't or wouldn't have been able to rebuild the saw, I got 15 years of service out of a saw that cost me the equivalent of $300-$400 today. To me, that was a good investment of my resources.

The 'your time is worth something' argument also assumes that each hour in a day could be used to earn money.

At least for me, it can't. There are times of day and whole entire days (nights and weekends) that if I want to make more money, I'd have to get another job. And my employment contract says I can't do that. So nights and weekends my hourly rate is $0 and for home projects it's not a matter of earning more money but limiting expenses.

But yes, if cutting wood was my job, I'd be buying new saws and paying someone to fix them when they broke and I'd also be perpetually angry if they did that (broke) too often. The equipment I use for work is new, and if it stutters I call the guys responsible for it and they bring me a new one.

For me, using a chainsaw is either a hobby or a chore. I'm just trying to make whichever it is of those easier without blowing up the bank.

 

[fre1102]

That's why you buy a spare off eBay. Same with the limiter caps.

So you're...tinkering? Why not just buy a new saw if you void the warranty?