a question for the arborists.

kf_tree · Aug 10, 2002

myself and every tree company i've worked for use's new motor oil for bar oil. since oil is toxic, what does it do to the tree's on pruning cuts. is regular bar oil toxic as well or was this taken into account when formulated?

Treeman14 · Aug 10, 2002

Good question

I don't know if anyone has ever studied the effects of petroleum-based bar oil on trees. That might be worthy of an ISA grant. My personal feeling is that it can't be good for the tree or the environment. I've been using environmentally friendly bar oil for years, but its very expensive and difficult to locate. I used Husky Pro-Forest for awhile, now I'm using Stihl Bio-Plus. My local Stihl dealer is having trouble getting it lately. I believe they're both made from vegetable oils. Its about $20 a gallon(I know, I'm nuts), but I feel its my small part to help reduce pollution.

budroe69moni · Aug 10, 2002

i'm not sure but i think spiking a tree will do more harm than using a petroleum-based bar and chain oil

great question though............
here's what i found as alternitives to petro-based oil, check out these links.......
http://www.badgeroil.biz/industrial/biobuzz.htm
http://www.gemtek.com/Pages/SL_Industrial.html
but i have not found any studies done on this subject involving overall tree health.
budroe

kf_tree · Aug 10, 2002

i usually oil my spikes before each jab, smarty!

treeclimber165 · Aug 10, 2002

I was gonna take that jab earlier, but thought better. Figured someone else could do it.

The way I understand it, a pruning cut is a wound that is going to compartmentalize. All the exposed cells are going to die before the woundwood grows over it. So is it bad to let a little oil residue get on dead wood?
And you must realize just how little oil gets on each cut. Assuming you make 100 cuts with a tank of gas, and use 4oz. of bar oil on those cuts, and 30% of the oil flings off the bar, and 50% gets sopped up in the sawdust, then 20% of 4oz of oil is available to get on 100 cuts. You get more oil in your lungs when driving in traffic behind a diesel truck.
I think a much bigger issue is the oil that gets trapped in the sawdust (probably more than 50%) and gets washed into the ground. But we are a world dependant upon petroleum, and every drop used ends up back in our environment somehow. I admire Brett for his commitment to take a small (but expensive) step to use less petroleum.

John Paul Sanborn · Aug 10, 2002

Most bar oil is 30 weight with antisling addatives, somewhat like chain grease in cycling.

I know it has been said that the petrol products in tar paint will effect the callus growth.

My understanding of callus is that it starts to form shortly after wounding. The lack intercellular pressuer causes the meristem to begin to flow outwards and differenciate into callus then woundwood. Callus being the precursor to woundwood in the technical sence.

I'll ask Tim Walsh if he knows of any students who would want to write a paper.

Stumper · Aug 10, 2002

I haven't made the switch to the 'eco-oil' in all my saws but for what it is worth I've been using Canola oil (the cooking stuff from Wal-Mart) in my Power Pruner with very pleasing results.

Warning: On a hot afternoon when you are using the PP heavily a whiff of the scent coming off your bar/chain can cause an overwhelming desire for french fries or fried catfish.

nod · Aug 11, 2002

a question for arborists

Hi all! My first posting from across the pond, for what it's worth.

I've been using eco-friendly chain lubricants for about ten years, starting initially with the husky & stihl varieties followed by bio-plus (a UK product). Verdict: good but very expensive! About three years ago I decide to start my own study into rape seed oil products purchaseable from the local supermarket. Cost approx. 70 cents per litre (sorry you guys dont use litres), or 3 bucks per gallon, a slight difference to the 20 bucks per gallon. The product is 100% biodegradeable as opposed to the 95-97% degradeability of brand name oils. I encountered only two minor problems with it: (i) It can dry out when cutting extremely dusty wood, but I found that to be the same with mineral lubricants, (ii) Fending off the insults when others find out how little I spend on chain lube.

Maintain your bar & keep it free from debris & turn up the oil flow rate, you should have no problems.

Good luck
nod

Tom Dunlap · Aug 11, 2002

Nod wrote:

I encountered only two
minor problems with it: (i) It can dry out when cutting extremely dusty wood, but
I found that to be the same with mineral lubricants,

What dried out? What "it" are you referring to? Did the chain get sticky from lack of lubing? Seems right, I have that happen with any of the auto oiler saws. Back in the day when we had manual oilers I would just give a couple of extra pumps to keep the bar lubed. Not so anymore.

Tom

John Paul Sanborn · Aug 11, 2002

Tom, you still using canola oil?

nod · Aug 12, 2002

a question for arborists

Hi Tom

I gues that 'it' covers a myriad of possibilities, but what I meant was the oil in the bar groove & subsequently on the chain.

Clearer now I hope!

Nod

Tom Dunlap · Aug 16, 2002

John,

After searching for answers about using vegie oil for about two years I've never heard a negative reply or comment. On Tuesday I was at Costco and bought a five gallon jug of canola oil for the saws. It worked out to cost 87 cents per quart and no sales tax in MN because its considered food. Pretty cheap, environmentally sensitive and I don't have to worry about spilling any more.

Speaking of spilling, why does everyone try to get the last drop of oil and gas in the saw? We always spill or dribble some. This is a universal observation too. I've seen pros, homeowners and new hires do this for so many years I think there must be a reason.

tom

TREETX · Aug 16, 2002

I'm going to go the canola (aka - granola) route as well. I just ask that you post if you encounter any problems with it.

Thanks - N

TheTreeSpyder · Aug 16, 2002

Any warnings about diffrent viscosity and oil pump system with that Tom?

Or Tack?

Tom Dunlap · Aug 16, 2002

Last summer I used 2.5 gallons in a short test and had no problems. The vegie oil seems thinner. I've never used bar oil in over 25 years of cutting. Never seen the value. I don't have excessive wear on bars or sprockets. What oil pump issues would there be? I already have the adjuster opened all of the way

If I have any problems, I'll post here and the other arbo sites too.

tom

jhr · Aug 16, 2002

boy canola sounds alright!!! I smoke my own meats and usually I'll hand cut the ends because I don't want any off tastes are scents going into my meats. But if canola works and there is no excessive friction on the bar or chain won't have to do any hand cutting!!!!

John Paul Sanborn · Aug 16, 2002

When using the stihl veggie oil I was told to open the oiler all the way because it is thinner.

The only thing I dont think I would use it for is a big stumping bar.

Anyone used a thick oil for big bars, like a 50 weight?

kf_tree · Aug 16, 2002

some times when flush cutting a big stump. i'll pull the bar out of the cut a bit and pour oil right on the bar.

John Paul Sanborn · Aug 16, 2002

I've don it on a few where the tip is sticking out and just have some one dribble it on the nose. Special dry dead wood.

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