Splicing Velocity rope; a foolish notion.

pdqdl · Apr 4, 2009

Although Samson lists this rope as "splicable", I think they are absolutely nuts. Kind of like the English channel is "swimmable".

1. I could not even pass the tubular fid into the cover, unless there was NO core present (past "X"). I was trying to re-insert the core into the cover, on a class I double braid splice. I even tried a fid two sizes too small. No way, no how.

2. I made a wire fid (Thanks Moray!) and tried to pull the core through cover past where the core would be doubled. Not a chance. No way, no how.

3. After many useless efforts, I decided to put a taper into the core so that I could maybe pull it through to "Z". (You are supposed to put in a taper AFTER pulling it through the cover) Nope. That will never happen.

4. I eventually gave up, pulling the tapered core through the cover slightly past "X". (These are the marks you put on the rope, when following Samson's instructions)

5. Hammered, beat, pulled, lubricated, (thinking profane dialog throughout) and I eventually pushed the "crossover" back into the cover by pulling out one strand of cover at a time past the crossover with my Leatherman supertool. What a gigantic pain. Each strand was so tight that it was strangling the shape of the rope for an additional inch into the eye.

2 hours later, I eventually got a lumpy, misshapen, unbelievably tight spliced eye in the end of the rope. It is lock stitched, and I am sure that it will never fail, although the cover is stretched so tight I am sure the strength is compromised a little.

My conclusion: Velocity is a nice rope, great for climbing. Don't plan on splicing it.

If you really, really need a spliced eye: buy a different rope, or pay somebody with better tools and techniques to do it for you. At $20 a splice, I paid myself $10/hr to make myself sore and mad and to have a rather marginal looking splice.

moray · Apr 4, 2009

I can't wipe the smile off my face--I love your purple prose!

But look, as Ghillie will tell you, this stuff isn't for the faint of heart or those whose internal dialog turns to dark profanity at the first sign of trouble.

I can tell you Velocity is not hard to work with, and I have a lovely tight eye to prove it, but if it had been the first splice I ever attempted my report of the experience would probably sound just like yours, only not so entertaining and eloquent.

Try a few easier splices first: some 3-strand perhaps, or a few in Tenex. Keep in mind that splicing "instructions" from Samson and the like are nothing more than a ridiculously spare schematic--something akin to "Wade into the water at Dover, emerge at Calais." I highly recommend the Brion Toss video as a way to get past the learning curve.

Should you choose to ignore my advice, I eagerly await your description of your next splicing attempt!

squad143 · Apr 4, 2009

moray said:
I have a lovely tight eye to prove itQUOTE]

Had to laugh at that one myself.

Dadatwins · Apr 4, 2009

I also bought a splicing kit and it still sits in the garage next to the empty liquor bottle that I drank trying to figure the mess out. I can do 3 strand, which I don't even use any more, but the new stuff I leave to the professionals at Sherill's. It is a skill that I would like to know, but like many others I will pay for someone else to do it.

Ghillie · Apr 4, 2009

This might jog some ideas PDQDL.

In one of my other posts I mentioned a "mistake" that actually ended up helping.

This is on 16 strand so make your own translation, I have not tried a class II double braid.

I made the wire fid like moray pictured but I doubled it the whole length (no wire end in the rope when using) and soldered it the whole way to keep from wedging fibers.

I then made a snare out of core yarn using a double fisherman bend.

I secured a strong anchor in the floor joists in my basement "sewing/splicing" room (yes I said sewing!). This is the anchor I used for pulling the splice. I could get more leverage using my weight and a static anchor is a must.

When I put the fid and snare through the rope, I snared the sheath and left about an inch and a half of the end folded over. I seperated the strands of sheath to make for a lower profile.

When I was pulling the sheath back through itself, I had the snare attached to the anchor and was not pulling on the wire at all. I worked at it for a while with constant pressure and manipulation of the outer sheath.

In frustration I pulled on the fid and it pulled out of the rope completely leaving the snare and sheath (still doubled over the snare) partially started past the core. I was about to pull it all back out the insertion point when I realized the snare was still holding.

I hooked the snare back up to my elevated anchor and pulled in the appropriate place on the rope and the snare pulled the sheath right through.

Without the wire fid adding to the bulk, it made it easier and the friction of the doubled over end of the sheath kept it from coming out of the snare.

Picture the sheath just doubled over the loop of the snare, not girth hitched in the snare.

I hope you can make sense of all that..... I think I have confused myself. :dizzy:

pdqdl · Apr 5, 2009

Moray! I know you do this stuff all the time, but I am a skeptic on this one.

Are you trying to tell me that it is actually possible to re-insert the not-yet-tapered core inside the cover and pull it out at "Z", per Samson's instructions? That would be two complete cores contained inside one tight cover AND pulled out the stretched tight cover. I think you're living in fantasy land!

You'll have to show me a picture of that step, cause I don't think it will happen.

Incidentally, I have no trouble splicing stable braid, and I have been doing 3 strand without any technical guides since I was a Boy Scout. I haven't yet done any 16 strand rope, cause we don't happen to have any that we use.

pdqdl · Apr 5, 2009

Ghillie:

One of my failed/pointless/futile/what-can-I-try-next efforts to pull the tapered core through the cover (past the initial exit point of the core "x") involved using a single strand pulled out of some 9/16" stable braid cover. I had it cinched in using a series of 1/2 hitches starting within the first inch of the core, with the almost negligibly thick tip bent to the rear. I suspect this was much like the method you described above.

I broke the stable braid strand off trying to pull that core through the restricted area.

Really, I just don't think there is room for it to be done following the directions. Maybe my rope is wrapped tighter than Samson intended?

moray · Apr 5, 2009

pdqdl said:
...You'll have to show me a picture of that step, cause I don't think it will happen...

Well, I don't have a picture of that step, but here's one of the finished product. I honestly don't have a clear memory of making that splice, only that it didn't seem particularly hard, especially compared to 16 strand.

I probably used one or more tricks to pull the core out at Mark Z. I probably tapered the last 8 inches of core and wrapped it with sewing thread to keep it together. I probably soaped it as well. Then, with a small fid, or just some line (as Ghillie discovered), pull the tapered tip out at Z. Then, little by little, work the rest of the core through. There, you've done the hard step, soap and sewing thread replacing profanity.

FYI, I thought stable braid was tougher.

pdqdl · Apr 5, 2009

moray said:
... I probably tapered the last 8 inches of core and wrapped it with sewing thread to keep it together. I probably soaped it as well....

FYI, I thought stable braid was tougher.

I tried whipping the tapered core before pulling it too, along with soap. It ended up whipping me.

I really think that the Velocity I have is different. Are we talking about 10mm diameter line here? The rope I have is so tightly wrapped, it hardly deforms when you bend it over to pull out the core.

It took me at least 10 minutes just to get the core out to start the splice. I knew I was in trouble then!

moray · Apr 5, 2009

I have to admit my memory of that splice is somewhere between foggy and completely opaque, but I remember walking away thinking it wasn't so bad. And who knows, maybe different batches of rope are a little different, as you suggest. If the opportunity to do another Velocity splice comes along, I'll document the whole affair.

masiman · Apr 6, 2009

Ghillie said:
.......
I made the wire fid like moray pictured but I doubled it the whole length (no wire end in the rope when using) and soldered it the whole way to keep from wedging fibers....

Anyone have a link to the wire fid? I was thinking about getting the Brion Toss wand and video. I'm not sure if moray's fid would replace the wand.

Thanks!

moray · Apr 6, 2009

masiman, Ghillie found this link a few days ago.

I have one of the Toss wands, as well as a couple of my own fids. There are times I prefer the Toss wand because of its stiffness, and other times I prefer mine because it takes up so little room and is less likely to puncture a yarn. If you decide to make one, be careful to file it after soldering so that no part of the eye can snag a thread. You also might find putting a crosswise wooden handle on it would help during pulling operations. Brion's video is great. Good luck!

Ghillie · Apr 6, 2009

masiman said:
Anyone have a link to the wire fid? I was thinking about getting the Brion Toss wand and video. I'm not sure if moray's fid would replace the wand.

Thanks!

Definately make one first and see how it works for you. Toss wands are pricey and I honestly think the wire fid based on moray's thread is superior for 16 strand. I watched the video of Toss splicing 16 strand on youtube.

masiman · Apr 6, 2009

moray said:
masiman, Ghillie found this link a few days ago.

I have one of the Toss wands, as well as a couple of my own fids. There are times I prefer the Toss wand because of its stiffness, and other times I prefer mine because it takes up so little room and is less likely to puncture a yarn. If you decide to make one, be careful to file it after soldering so that no part of the eye can snag a thread. You also might find putting a crosswise wooden handle on it would help during pulling operations. Brion's video is great. Good luck!

Thanks!!

Bookmarked it.

offshoretreeze · Mar 10, 2012

I should have read this first--VERY difficult!

I realize this post is ancient, but just had to comment if only to vent my frustration and perhaps help someone else.

Bought 150' of the Velocity rope along with a Hitch Climber Pulley, not knowing an eye splice was required for safe use of the pulley. I'd used the rope a few times and nobody was willing to do the splice for what I believe were liability reasons. Fair enough. How hard could it be?

Bought the Samson Splice Kit & 12' of 7/16" New England Double Braid rope from West Marine to practice on. Quickly abandoned Samson's instructions, opting for the GREAT Andy Wall video splicing double braid - YouTube

A couple of successful splices on the test rope and I figured I'd finish the Velocity eye in 30 minutes flat. 4.5 hours later, I ended up with a slightly lumpy, yet serviceable eye, mangled hands & several empty beer cans.

Everything went fine until I had to slip the core by the core using the 7/16" fid. After much effort, I did manage to get the fid through the rope, but core would always fall off somewhere in the middle when pushing.

In the end, I was able to finally get it through by tapering the core & using a 5/16" fid. I can't believe that skinny little pusher didn't completely snap after all my bending & straightening. That Velocity braid is extremely TIGHT!

If I were to try it again (and I probably would), I'd skip the fid altogether and make some sort of wire deal with a loop on the end (I think this is what you guys were talking about). Taper the core, snare it with some twine and pull it through, rather than pushing it.

Anyhow, that was my experience...hope no one has as much trouble as I did.

Ghillie · Mar 12, 2012

I have to preface this with, I am laughing with you, not at you.

Definitely make a fid before your next attempt. My phone won't let me see your pic, but I am guessing it looks similar to all of our first splices. Mine was with 16 strand and took 8 hours and 40' of rope. I feel your pain.

My wire fids are usually 14ga copper. I probably have some pics up here. I know Moray does. Search for "rainy day splicing "

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Ghillie · Mar 12, 2012

Oh, and splicing rope that has been loaded sucks with a capital sucks! Resist the urge.

I, since I posted earlier in the thread, have done quite a few double braid splices. Sharp tugs help when pulling rope through and a good static anchor point is a must.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

pdqdl · Mar 12, 2012

I figured it out!

The secret to splicing Velocity without going nuts is to make SURE that the inner core & crossover is pulled very tight before you attempt to slide the outer cover over the crossover.

It's been a while since I did it, so maybe my terminology is all wrong. Read up on the class one double-braid splice, and when it says to pull the core tight, you need to rig a pulley setup (or something equally powerful) to stretch it tight as a drum, so that you can manage to slide the core & crossover inside the cover. There just isn't much room inside the cover...

sgreanbeans · Mar 13, 2012

Ghillie said:
Oh, and splicing rope that has been loaded sucks with a capital sucks! Resist the urge.

I, since I posted earlier in the thread, have done quite a few double braid splices. Sharp tugs help when pulling rope through and a good static anchor point is a must.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Sniper?

offshoretreeze · Mar 13, 2012

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the tips. I'll definitely make a custom fid & apply more pressure to the rope next time.

I don't know if it'll make a difference, but there's a small chance the other end of the rope hasn't been loaded yet. The few climbs I've done have been SRT and no higher than 50' or so.

Splicing Velocity rope; a foolish notion.

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