Leakdown vs Pressure vs Vacuum

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

litefoot

Addicted to ArboristSite
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
2,402
Reaction score
527
Location
American West
As I search through old posts, it appears that the term leakdown is being used interchangeably with pressure and vacuum testing. I understand the concept of pressure and vacuum testing the bottom end. But leakdown testing is for the upper cylinder, right?

Old posts have some info on building leakdown testers for motorcycles and a little on test procedures. Can we talk about those two things here? I assume you use nominal upper cylinder pressures and test at TDC through the spark plug hole. Thanks.

Or if there's a good thread I missed, then send me that way.
 
As I search through old posts, it appears that the term leakdown is being used interchangeably with pressure and vacuum testing. I understand the concept of pressure and vacuum testing the bottom end. But leakdown testing is for the upper cylinder, right?
For a two stroke, yes. However, a 4 cycle engine can be leakdown tested through the entire piston stroke.
 
I think you are confusing the use of the term "leakdown". It has two meanings to me. First is used with checking cylinder for leakdown,pressure getting past rings or valve seats(4stroke). Second is vac/pressurer testing 2cyl engines, like hooking Mightyvac to impulse fitting on Stihl powerhead and pumping up to see if it holds pressure/vacuum. In this case leakdown would be from bad crank seals or gaskets. Hope this helps.:)
 
A "leak down" test is a pressure test applied through the spark plug hole with the piston at TDC to measure the ring and valve seal in a 4 stroke engine.

A pressure/Vacuum test is a measure of the ability of a crankcase on a two stroke engine to hold a nominal pressure and vacuum applied to a sealed crankcase and is a test to ensure there are no leaks in the crankcase/cylinder system.

A pressure/Vac test is an invaluable tool to find leaks in a two stroke system such as a failing crank seal, a leaking base gasket, a faulty case seal, leaky compression release, etc.

I think some of the confusion is because some people call the pressure part of the pressure/Vac test a "leak down" test since you are measuring how fast a crankcase will "leak down" pressure. Yes a two stroke crankcase can/will leak pressure during the test what you are measuring is how fast the case loses that pressure. Most small leaks in a crank seal will pass the pressure part of the test because the seal will be pushed out a little causing it to make a seal. If you never put vacuum on it you would walk away thinking the case is good, always do the Vacuum part of the test it will tell you more than pressure.

Hope this helps. :cheers:
 
"Leakdown testing" also works very well on 2 strokes to measure the effectiveness of the ring seal...

You can get a leakdown tester for $29 at harbor freight. All you need is a small compressor.
 
While were on the subject, I have a MityVac that I use for vacuum testing and brake bleeding on vehicles. I know my local Stihl mechanic uses the same set up on crank seal testing on Stihl chainsaws. Stihl apparently has different adaptors for their saws but does anyone make a universal adaptor for a MityVac that can be used on all or most saws?

Thanks in advance :popcorn:
 
"Leakdown testing" also works very well on 2 strokes to measure the effectiveness of the ring seal...

You can get a leakdown tester for $29 at harbor freight. All you need is a small compressor.

Ahah! That's the test I want to know about. Please elaborate, Andy. I want to know about procedure, pressures, duration and the test setup.:clap:
 
Ahah! That's the test I want to know about. Please elaborate, Andy. I want to know about procedure, pressures, duration and the test setup.:clap:

"Leakdown testing" also works very well on 2 strokes to measure the effectiveness of the ring seal...

You can get a leakdown tester for $29 at harbor freight. All you need is a small compressor.

Rings yes, cylinder no.
 
Ahah! That's the test I want to know about. Please elaborate, Andy. I want to know about procedure, pressures, duration and the test setup.:clap:

Performing a leakdown is easy. Obviously, the first thing to do is look in the exhaust and intake and look for major scuffing. If you see that, you probably already know the answer.

Most piston engine bores wear most at the top of the bore. On a 4 stroke, you can measure anywhere on the stroke as long as both valves are shut. On a 2 stroke you can only measure where the rings are seated on the bore, so it's best to stay at tdc or very near tdc. There are single guage and double guage leakdown testers. Double guage is easier and faster.

Move to tdc.
Jam the flywheel so the crank won't rotate.
Remove the plug.
Hook up the air to leakdown tester.
Set regulator to 100 psi. (makes it easy)
Unhook air.
Screw the hose in the plug hole.
Hook up air.
Verify 100 psi on 1st guage.
Second guage will read leakdown.


So if the first guage reads 100 psi and the second guage reads 80 psi, you have 20% leakdown. On a 2 stroke, that tells you exactly how well the rings are sealing. Doesn't matter what the compression ratio is or whether the combustion chamber is covered with carbon (as long as the rings are free). On a 4 stroke, you can often pinpoint where the leak is by listening for the leak, ie: intake, exhaust, crankcase.



I feel a leakdown test is preferable to a compression test because a leakdown isn't dependent on cranking speed or compression ratio. It is the only true way to check ring sealing without complete disassembly and lotsa measuring. A compression test is ok with a stock motor because you have a baseline - you know what it should be. If the compression has been bumped though, you have no baseline reading to compare to. It may still run, but you have no idea how much blowby you're dealing with and whether a ring job will gain you more power.
 
Last edited:
This has been made to complicated. Traditionally a leakdown is a test of top end sealing, on any type of engine. Rings, valves, gaskets, castings. Two-stroke or four-stroke. There are two kinds of tests, time to pressure, and pressure differential. The time to pressure test establishes a pressure in vessel, then records the amount of time that a certain percentage of that pressure is retained. This type of test is also performed on electrical enclosures used in underground mining. The pressure differential test uses a pressure guage to measure input pressure, and another guage to measure vessel pressure. A "percentage of leakage" or "leakdown" is derived by dividing the vessel pressure by the manifold pressure. There are also direct reading leakage testers that display percetage of leakage. I have such a unit made by Snap-on. Normally these tests are performed at about 50psi manifold pressure, so if you have 48psi vessel pressure it means 4% leakage. Two-stroke crankcase leakage testing is normally the time to pressure test, but it is still a "leakdown" test.

Edit: Chow said most of this while I was typing :cheers:

Edit II: A well built racing engine will leak less than .5% :)
 
Last edited:
Good info going!
The leakdown test is a good method of checking the ring seat condition. Chow mentioned piston movement (In the 4 cycle engine) and I think it’s important.
The very best feed back from the test is when the piston is moved through 180 degrees off TDC while testing.
 
Edit II: A well built racing engine will leak less than .5% :)

Ahh, and a crappy worn out mower engine will leak 47%. :D

Good post, I was trying to keep it simple as it pertained to chainsaws. Not many saw techs use a leakdown test to check rings, heck for that matter a lot of them don’t use a compression gauge either. :laugh:

:cheers:
 
Chow and Tzed,
Great responses, both of you. What are acceptable numbers for a 2-stroke engine both in terms of % leakdown and time to leakdown? Thanks.:clap:
 
Edit II: A well built racing engine will leak less than .5% :)

Hmmmm.... I have thought about how to put gapless rings in a 2 stroke. You have ideas?

I want a 440 with a 0.5 cm longer Ti rod and gapless rings. The problem in my planning is the gapless rings and how to keep them in one place.
 
While were on the subject, I have a MityVac that I use for vacuum testing and brake bleeding on vehicles. I know my local Stihl mechanic uses the same set up on crank seal testing on Stihl chainsaws. Stihl apparently has different adaptors for their saws but does anyone make a universal adaptor for a MityVac that can be used on all or most saws?

Thanks in advance :popcorn:

I normally have saws far apart and connect mightyvac to impulse line fitting. My Mightyvac has a "breather" that you can pop off and use that port for pressure. Even though there is no pressure on gauge.:)
 
Hmmmm.... I have thought about how to put gapless rings in a 2 stroke. You have ideas?

I want a 440 with a 0.5 cm longer Ti rod and gapless rings. The problem in my planning is the gapless rings and how to keep them in one place.




See Pankl Racing Systems for the rod...

The gapless ring may not be needed so much as the leakage time at 14,000RPM is very short.




.
 
I normally have saws far apart and connect mightyvac to impulse line fitting. My Mightyvac has a "breather" that you can pop off and use that port for pressure. Even though there is no pressure on gauge.:)

Mityvac has pressure/vacuum setup for the Silverline pump...it is nice:)
 
Back
Top