Help Request on Stihl 028 AV Super Wood Boss - Bogging

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Two things to consider regarding pressure and vacuum. First, if you’re using a Mityvac, it measures vacuum in inHg, with roughly 2 inHg equaling 1 psi. So make sure the vacuum scale is around 15 and the pressure scale around 7. Second, turn the crank over multiple times under vacuum.

My initial suggestion is to lean out the L screw on the saw slightly. While it may not be the main issue, it’s definitely too rich and not quite right.

The fluctuation at full throttle suggests some restriction, which could be due to the tank vent, a carb/fuel blockage, or an intermittent air leak.

Amazon carbs can be hit or miss—your success rate is likely below 50%. I always advise people to hold onto their original parts unless they’re beyond repair.

Also, whenever you’re explaining something like this, it’s helpful to include a short video clip to illustrate your points, for the reasons I’ve mentioned.

In your case, I’d recommend retesting the vacuum at 15-20 inHg and turning the crank at the same time. If everything checks out (and you haven’t used rubber to block the intake), make sure the tank vent is functioning, the filter is clean, the fuel line is in good condition, flexible, and properly sealed. Then, try putting the knockoff carb kit into the OEM carb and check that all passages flow properly with brake cleaner under pressure.

Diagnosing faults can be a long and frustrating process, especially if you’re not used to it. Take a step back, breathe, and approach it with a clear head—problems get solved faster that way.

Apologies if I’ve repeated anything you’ve already tried. The thread’s gotten quite long, so I may not remember everything.
 
Just a few additional points:
- I agree that the amazon carb could be a problem. Id keep going with the original carb, but rather than just cleaning it, use a new carb kit as well , the flexible rubber parts will have aged and become brittle. Sorry I don't know your experience level but make 100% sure the diaphragms etc are reassembled in the right order.
- All old rubber should be a focus for leaks. Clean Fuel tank breather or run the saw with the fuel cap slithtly lose. examine fuel line closely, bend it around for cracks or use your new pressure tester on it. Replace / remove fuel filter temporarily.
- you don't describe your procedure for pressure testing, but I prefer to block the exhaust port, block behind the carb and send pressure through the impulse line. try performing the pressure test under water, the bubbles are better than a guage at revealing a leak. Don't do a vacuum test under water!
 
...Maybe I knocked some crud loose under that welch plug that came back down and is now completely blocking something.
Unlikely. The issue with removing welch plugs is to get them to reliably seal again. Even the factory can't do it reliably and the have the proper tooling! They resort to using a proprietary sealant.

I only remove a welch plug as a last resort and if I replace it I I clean the area under (idle passages and metering chamber good with automotive brake cleaner and let ti completely dry. I thn apply a bead of water thin superglue around the edge of the plug. Now set the carb metering chamber up in a humid place for several days until you can verify that the superglue has completely cured.

BTW, what is the model of the OEM carb that is on the saw?
 
I got a few minutes to work on the saw tonight, so here are the updates.

I checked out the fuel tank vent - it was free. I took out the fuel filter and the fuel tank vent 'grub screw' and tried running without either of them - no change. So I put both back in. Fuel delivery upstream of the carb seems fine.

I took the original (Walbro) carb apart and soaked the hard parts in my ~20 year old bucket of chem-dip carb cleaner for about 45 minutes, followed by rodding out all the passages again and then spraying about half a can of brake cleaner through everything. I'm confident it doesn't have anything plugged. I put the diaphragm and flapper check valve gasket from the Amazon carb in it and then started the saw with that. It likes the needle valve positions at drastically different positions than the Amazon carb, but it gets back to a point where it operates just the same. It starts fine, idles ok, and bogs out the instant it gets load put on it. Here's a video of it at that point.



I'll look at the linked video when I get a minute, but I've cleaned more than a few of these over the years, so I don't think I've missed anything. Usually when I get one that won't behave after a good cleaning, I assume it's one of the rubber components, at which point it's usually cheaper to buy a whole carb than it is to buy a carb rebuild kit. I've done that several times and this is the first time that it's not fixed things, but to be fair on this saw it's performing no different than what came off it (which had been OK for ~5 years). Others may have a <50% success rate, but mine's been at or near 100%.

I'll do another pressure / vacuum check later to see if anything is different. I'm familiar with the units conversion and have been using the values in the shop manual now that I have it. I'd done my tests so far with the piston at TDC as the manual says but I can try rotating the crank while doing it to see if it aggravates something. I like the idea of disconnecting the impulse hose and attaching the tester there, so I'll try that next time I work on it. I've made block off gaskets out of EPDM sheet that I put under the muffler base and under the carb, if it matters how I've done that. Being able to attach to the impulse tube will eliminate me having to use the compression tester adapter to the spark plug, so it's less places for the test equipment to leak.

I did try running the saw without the outer piece of the muffler right before I had to stop. It did rev a little more freely, but it still bogged instantly and had no power under load. I tried richening it up by 1/8 turn on the high screw from there, and it wouldn't even rev up smoothly. Leaner than that was even worse.

I know the comment was said that I need to step back and look at it with a clear head. I just keep coming back to, if it has fuel, air, compression, and spark, it will run. Fuel at the carb seems to be responding to the adjustment screws like it should be. I can make it either too lean or too rich, on both the low and high circuits. On the air side, it isn't restricted any way that I can see, and the pressure / vacuum tests so far have showed it to be fine. Spark, it didn't change with the different coil or the new NGK plug I put in today, and the flywheel has not sheared the key. Compression is starting to seem more suspicious to me. The numbers are lower when hot than they are when cold, which is backwards from anything else I've worked on. Now it's ~65 psi on the first pull, ~95 on the next, and then it takes several more to get up to ~135 when hot. The manual has good instructions for taking off the cylinder and piston - pending the leak checks coming out OK next time I work on it, I'm probably going to pull the cylinder off just so I can see exactly what I'm dealing with.

FYI I've got other stuff piling up because I've spent so much time working on this saw. So it may be a while before I post again. Please don't take that as a sign of ingratitude, I'm very thankful for the attempts to help me.
 
Great video! After listening to how the saw is running, I’d be interested to see some pictures of how you’ve sharpened your chain, as well as a full-throttle run without load to hear the tune more clearly. Keep the throttle pinned for about 5-7 seconds, as sometimes it can sound fine initially, then start to fluctuate.

Regarding the intake side of the piston – the images you uploaded are helpful, but it’s a bit hard to assess fully. As pioneerguy mentioned, that’s essentially the valve to the port, and from what I can see, it looks smooth. Wear tends to occur more on the major thrust side of the piston skirt (opposite the engine’s rotation, in this case, on the intake side) due to the way the piston is angled off the connecting rod during the power stroke. If the clearance is off, it can result in low power, especially at higher RPM and under load. The only way to confirm this is by removing the piston and measuring with verniers.

Now, about the chain – if it’s sharpened incorrectly, it can put excessive strain on the saw, causing the clutch to stop and the engine to bog down. Combine that with a slightly off-tuned H screw, and it can make the problem worse.

Have you disassembled the clutch and checked the drive train, starting from the seal outward? This includes the washers, clutch, bearing, and clutch drum.

As for the compression reading of 150 cold, that’s fine. Keep in mind that high compression and a worn piston skirt are different issues and can happen independently.

Here’s my advice:

1. Share some pictures of the chain, the sharpening, and the angles you’re using.

2. Upload a video of the saw idling for a few seconds, then pin the throttle for 5-7 seconds before letting it return to idle. Repeat this a couple of times in the video.

3. Measure the skirt 1/2 inch above the base / bottom, and measure the cylinder diameter as well. While you’re in there, inspect the cylinder and piston for anything unusual.

4. Disassemble the clutch, inspect it, and see if anything stands out.
 
Check the coil gap, to my ear it sounds like the ignition is not advancing spark properly. In the last couple weeks I have seen many failed coils, inspect it carefully for warpage, very fine cracks in its body and the multi layered steel pickup legs delaminate and the wire lead and kill wire can rub through enough to kill spark when the saw is used...even worn crank bearings causing the flywheel to move away from the coil can cause weird issues. OEM is the best for coil replacement!
 
Did you ever probe the idle and transfer holes in the carb? Is there a good pulse on the line?, Does fuel push out the hose with the fuel cap on? I am sure the choke flap has been checked for spring tension.
The spark stays strong when bogging? The upper rear buffer is not contacting the plug wire when any pressure is applied? The plug wire has no wear spots and is fully inserted into the module? And the seals hold vacuum? (50% fail rate on that seal in an older saw).
 
Great video! After listening to how the saw is running, I’d be interested to see some pictures of how you’ve sharpened your chain, as well as a full-throttle run without load to hear the tune more clearly. Keep the throttle pinned for about 5-7 seconds, as sometimes it can sound fine initially, then start to fluctuate.

Regarding the intake side of the piston – the images you uploaded are helpful, but it’s a bit hard to assess fully. As pioneerguy mentioned, that’s essentially the valve to the port, and from what I can see, it looks smooth. Wear tends to occur more on the major thrust side of the piston skirt (opposite the engine’s rotation, in this case, on the intake side) due to the way the piston is angled off the connecting rod during the power stroke. If the clearance is off, it can result in low power, especially at higher RPM and under load. The only way to confirm this is by removing the piston and measuring with verniers.

Now, about the chain – if it’s sharpened incorrectly, it can put excessive strain on the saw, causing the clutch to stop and the engine to bog down. Combine that with a slightly off-tuned H screw, and it can make the problem worse.

Have you disassembled the clutch and checked the drive train, starting from the seal outward? This includes the washers, clutch, bearing, and clutch drum.

As for the compression reading of 150 cold, that’s fine. Keep in mind that high compression and a worn piston skirt are different issues and can happen independently.

Here’s my advice:

1. Share some pictures of the chain, the sharpening, and the angles you’re using.

2. Upload a video of the saw idling for a few seconds, then pin the throttle for 5-7 seconds before letting it return to idle. Repeat this a couple of times in the video.

3. Measure the skirt 1/2 inch above the base / bottom, and measure the cylinder diameter as well. While you’re in there, inspect the cylinder and piston for anything unusual.

4. Disassemble the clutch, inspect it, and see if anything stands out.
did you watch the vid in post #20?
 
Check the coil gap, to my ear it sounds like the ignition is not advancing spark properly. In the last couple weeks I have seen many failed coils, inspect it carefully for warpage, very fine cracks in its body and the multi layered steel pickup legs delaminate and the wire lead and kill wire can rub through enough to kill spark when the saw is used...even worn crank bearings causing the flywheel to move away from the coil can cause weird issues. OEM is the best for coil replacement!
yeah it sounds sluggish as getting up to revs, any wonder it dies in the arse when it touches wood. keyway not flogged out? if you have a similar saw, swap the carby of it and try it. its either carby or ignition or both i reckon.
 
Here's my attempt to answer the questions asked before I went out in the shop tonight. I didn't think I'd be able to work on it at all but some other stuff cleared out for a day.

1. Share some pictures of the chain, the sharpening, and the angles you’re using. This is an Oregon chain that has only been sharpened a couple times. I use the Oregon file guide and a 5/32 file at 30 degrees I think, maybe 25, I'd have to look at the piece of the package that's in the saw case. I think it's different than the one on the MS180. I'm not good enough with sharpening to do anything more than what the package says to do. See the attached files.

2. Upload a video of the saw idling for a few seconds, then pin the throttle for 5-7 seconds before letting it return to idle. Repeat this a couple of times in the video. I attempted to do this today after doing the vacuum / pressure test and looking directly at the crank seals, but now it's decided that it doesn't want to accept any throttle input after starting. It will rev up on the fast idle but after that it will die and won't restart. I put the Amazon carb back on and it did the same with it, too. I did not adjust the Walbro carb since when I took the last video, but I did remove and reinstall it to put the block off gasket behind it for the checks. So something changed, and I don't know what.

3. Measure the skirt 1/2 inch above the base / bottom, and measure the cylinder diameter as well. While you’re in there, inspect the cylinder and piston for anything unusual. Will do, when / if I get to that point.

4. Disassemble the clutch, inspect it, and see if anything stands out. Nothing abnormal found in there (beyond the leaky oil seal on the oil pump. It didn't have any oil in the clutch assembly though). It says electronic quickstop on the cover, but this clutch looks nothing like either the standard or quickstop in the service manual that Charlie shared with me. Regardless, it looks like it's fine with minimal wear.

Check the coil gap, to my ear it sounds like the ignition is not advancing spark properly. In the last couple weeks I have seen many failed coils, inspect it carefully for warpage, very fine cracks in its body and the multi layered steel pickup legs delaminate and the wire lead and kill wire can rub through enough to kill spark when the saw is used...even worn crank bearings causing the flywheel to move away from the coil can cause weird issues. OEM is the best for coil replacement! Coil gap is good, I just set it when I put it back on after testing the aftermarket coil. No cracks or warpage of the metal I can detect. No play I can detect by hand in the crank bearings but I haven't put a dial indicator on it. There are no signs of the magnets having contacted anything to put scratches on them.

The high speed nozzle/check valve is stuck open. Where is this located? Something in the carb or somewhere else? I can't find it in the parts listing.

Yes. Make sure the clutch drum bearing is intact. It looks like it's brand new. No signs of scoring, heat, wear, etc. The assembly turns smooth like you would expect.

Make sure you don't have a crack in the intake manifold that opens when the saw flexes on the buffers. I got a new intake boot and will install it soon if I end up taking the cylinder off. With the old one I'm passing the pressure and vacuum test now without any leakdown now that I've tested off the impulse hose fitting rather than through the compression test adapter. Rotating the crank didn't make any difference either, and putting soapy water on the seal beneath the clutch didn't show any bubbles or suck in any solution during the test.

Did you ever probe the idle and transfer holes in the carb? Yes, every single hole. I have an old torch nozzle cleaner set that I use for this purpose so I always have something that fits tight to the drilled hole size. I watched the Walbro video too. Probably good for someone who hasn't had one of these apart before, but that's not me. I've cleaned and re-sealed them many times, so nothing new to me in this one. I've just never had a machine that didn't get fixed by either clean + gaskets or a new cheapo carb.

Is there a good pulse on the line? There is pulse, both pressure and vacuum. I can't say how much though, maybe 1-2 psi each way off zero? It moves pretty fast obviously.

Does fuel push out the hose with the fuel cap on? When the tank heats up after running, yes it pushes fuel out the carb hose when the inlet to the carb is disconnected. If the carb is connected, you can see and hear it bubbling air out the labyrinth passage past the grub screw in the vent tube.

I am sure the choke flap has been checked for spring tension. Correct, it has plenty of tension and it made no difference when I ran the saw (already warmed, a couple days ago) with the choke plate removed completely.

The spark stays strong when bogging? How would I accurately check this? Every inline spark tester I've ever used has had a VERY detrimental effect to the quality of the spark delivered while it was installed. Basically only good for a yes / no on spark, not spark quality. It has good quality spark when tested not running, grounded against the cylinder, and the China coil worked with the exact same symptoms.

The upper rear buffer is not contacting the plug wire when any pressure is applied? Nothing is hitting the plug wire.

The plug wire has no wear spots and is fully inserted into the module? No wear spots on the plug wire and no signs of it trying to pull out of the module. This saw likely has less than 20 hours of run time in its life, with me putting on at least half of that from about 2017 - 2023.

And the seals hold vacuum? (50% fail rate on that seal in an older saw). Correct. As mentioned above, it holds vacuum fine, static or while rotating the crank, when tested from the impulse tube.

So that's where I'm at as of now. Seemingly getting farther away from home the more things I check. There's got to be something silly I'm missing, but at this point I don't see how it could keep so many of the symptoms constant if it was carburetor or spark related when I've changed out both systems repeatedly.
 

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Hi all, sorry to jump in late on top of what has been some amazing advice and information but i had a similar prolem with a 036

Damn thing idled nicely but just bogged down when i tried to rev it up and wouldn't cut. Frustrated the heck out of me
After doing all the vacuum testing (was low so replaced rings) a new plug, carb refirb, new oil pump while i was in there, a new chain and then new bar I took it out to try. It now revved up and looked like a healthy saw again. Alas it still wouldn't cut wood, just bogged down.

Turned out to be the clutch, it looked fine but wouldn't grip so it just slipped and didn't have the power to cut. After a new sprocket and clutch i have a fully running saw again


I do have a Poulan (Walbro Carb) which i have to have the low on the carb about 4 turns out before it will run properly, that one threw me for a while until i worked out how badly out of "normal" tune it had to be to run (carb fefirb did nothing for that saw) It just bogged down same as yours.

Similar issues to your problems so something to check
 
Here's my attempt to answer the questions asked before I went out in the shop tonight. I didn't think I'd be able to work on it at all but some other stuff cleared out for a day.

1. Share some pictures of the chain, the sharpening, and the angles you’re using. This is an Oregon chain that has only been sharpened a couple times. I use the Oregon file guide and a 5/32 file at 30 degrees I think, maybe 25, I'd have to look at the piece of the package that's in the saw case. I think it's different than the one on the MS180. I'm not good enough with sharpening to do anything more than what the package says to do. See the attached files.

2. Upload a video of the saw idling for a few seconds, then pin the throttle for 5-7 seconds before letting it return to idle. Repeat this a couple of times in the video. I attempted to do this today after doing the vacuum / pressure test and looking directly at the crank seals, but now it's decided that it doesn't want to accept any throttle input after starting. It will rev up on the fast idle but after that it will die and won't restart. I put the Amazon carb back on and it did the same with it, too. I did not adjust the Walbro carb since when I took the last video, but I did remove and reinstall it to put the block off gasket behind it for the checks. So something changed, and I don't know what.

3. Measure the skirt 1/2 inch above the base / bottom, and measure the cylinder diameter as well. While you’re in there, inspect the cylinder and piston for anything unusual. Will do, when / if I get to that point.

4. Disassemble the clutch, inspect it, and see if anything stands out. Nothing abnormal found in there (beyond the leaky oil seal on the oil pump. It didn't have any oil in the clutch assembly though). It says electronic quickstop on the cover, but this clutch looks nothing like either the standard or quickstop in the service manual that Charlie shared with me. Regardless, it looks like it's fine with minimal wear.

Check the coil gap, to my ear it sounds like the ignition is not advancing spark properly. In the last couple weeks I have seen many failed coils, inspect it carefully for warpage, very fine cracks in its body and the multi layered steel pickup legs delaminate and the wire lead and kill wire can rub through enough to kill spark when the saw is used...even worn crank bearings causing the flywheel to move away from the coil can cause weird issues. OEM is the best for coil replacement! Coil gap is good, I just set it when I put it back on after testing the aftermarket coil. No cracks or warpage of the metal I can detect. No play I can detect by hand in the crank bearings but I haven't put a dial indicator on it. There are no signs of the magnets having contacted anything to put scratches on them.

The high speed nozzle/check valve is stuck open. Where is this located? Something in the carb or somewhere else? I can't find it in the parts listing.

Yes. Make sure the clutch drum bearing is intact. It looks like it's brand new. No signs of scoring, heat, wear, etc. The assembly turns smooth like you would expect.

Make sure you don't have a crack in the intake manifold that opens when the saw flexes on the buffers. I got a new intake boot and will install it soon if I end up taking the cylinder off. With the old one I'm passing the pressure and vacuum test now without any leakdown now that I've tested off the impulse hose fitting rather than through the compression test adapter. Rotating the crank didn't make any difference either, and putting soapy water on the seal beneath the clutch didn't show any bubbles or suck in any solution during the test.

Did you ever probe the idle and transfer holes in the carb? Yes, every single hole. I have an old torch nozzle cleaner set that I use for this purpose so I always have something that fits tight to the drilled hole size. I watched the Walbro video too. Probably good for someone who hasn't had one of these apart before, but that's not me. I've cleaned and re-sealed them many times, so nothing new to me in this one. I've just never had a machine that didn't get fixed by either clean + gaskets or a new cheapo carb.

Is there a good pulse on the line? There is pulse, both pressure and vacuum. I can't say how much though, maybe 1-2 psi each way off zero? It moves pretty fast obviously.

Does fuel push out the hose with the fuel cap on? When the tank heats up after running, yes it pushes fuel out the carb hose when the inlet to the carb is disconnected. If the carb is connected, you can see and hear it bubbling air out the labyrinth passage past the grub screw in the vent tube.

I am sure the choke flap has been checked for spring tension. Correct, it has plenty of tension and it made no difference when I ran the saw (already warmed, a couple days ago) with the choke plate removed completely.

The spark stays strong when bogging? How would I accurately check this? Every inline spark tester I've ever used has had a VERY detrimental effect to the quality of the spark delivered while it was installed. Basically only good for a yes / no on spark, not spark quality. It has good quality spark when tested not running, grounded against the cylinder, and the China coil worked with the exact same symptoms.

The upper rear buffer is not contacting the plug wire when any pressure is applied? Nothing is hitting the plug wire.

The plug wire has no wear spots and is fully inserted into the module? No wear spots on the plug wire and no signs of it trying to pull out of the module. This saw likely has less than 20 hours of run time in its life, with me putting on at least half of that from about 2017 - 2023.

And the seals hold vacuum? (50% fail rate on that seal in an older saw). Correct. As mentioned above, it holds vacuum fine, static or while rotating the crank, when tested from the impulse tube.

So that's where I'm at as of now. Seemingly getting farther away from home the more things I check. There's got to be something silly I'm missing, but at this point I don't see how it could keep so many of the symptoms constant if it was carburetor or spark related when I've changed out both systems repeatedly.
great feedback there appreciate it.

the clutch looks very blue like it got super hot at one stage. could hit the outer flat ares with sandpaper and see if that color comes back.

i have super detailed carby manuals in PDF if you want them.

also that chain is super blunt from looking at those photos. but thats only half yr problem. the circled blue bit looks like a chamfer on the cutting edge.
that needs to go.!
 

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VinceGU05.

Good catch on that dull blunt chain.
Some one has been sharped it wrong. Chain looks really bad in the pictures.
That might not be all his problems but it needs a good sharp chain.
Put a sharp chain on it and then at first try cutting small limbs instead of log so as you don't have to hold weight off the saw to get a cut.
I suspect you may also need to test a NEW stihl carb instead of Amazon China clones is just one reason why I keep asking your what is the OEM Stihl carb ID is on the saw now. If you have another Stihl saw with same carb, swap carbs. A complete Stihl carb is about same price as their re-build kits but one size does not fit all on the 028's.

That saw most likely does not have any vac/pressure or compression issues because it seems to idle really good, but I hear a slight high rev issue in your video.

You really have to be careful on the 028's after you get it running and cutting good and not get the H jet into the lean area, The piston and block will overheat fast (within 60 seconds) in a full bar loaded cut and it will give symptoms of bogging, but it's the piston skirt expanding into the cylinder wall due to friction, so keep a heads up about such and keep the H jet in the rich 4 cycle sound area.

What is the ID numbers on your Stihl carb?
 
VinceGU05.

Good catch on that dull blunt chain.
Some one has been sharped it wrong. Chain looks really bad in the pictures.
That might not be all his problems but it needs a good sharp chain.
Put a sharp chain on it and then at first try cutting small limbs instead of log so as you don't have to hold weight off the saw to get a cut.
I suspect you may also need to test a NEW stihl carb instead of Amazon China clones is just one reason why I keep asking your what is the OEM Stihl carb ID is on the saw now. If you have another Stihl saw with same carb, swap carbs. A complete Stihl carb is about same price as their re-build kits but one size does not fit all on the 028's.

That saw most likely does not have any vac/pressure or compression issues because it seems to idle really good, but I hear a slight high rev issue in your video.

You really have to be careful on the 028's after you get it running and cutting good and not get the H jet into the lean area, The piston and block will overheat fast (within 60 seconds) in a full bar loaded cut and it will give symptoms of bogging, but it's the piston skirt expanding into the cylinder wall due to friction, so keep a heads up about such and keep the H jet in the rich 4 cycle sound area.

What is the ID numbers on your Stihl carb?
Please be patient with me on the carb numbers. You asked for it after I was already out in the barn working on it without internet access last night, so I didn't see it until I got back in the house. I hope to get it tonight. All I remember is a cast in 'M22' on the needle side.

I 100% agree that the high side needs set slightly rich and I always do that. Not doing that on any 2 stroke equipment is a recipe for trouble.

Yes this chain is dull from work done last year cleaning up a particularly tough ash tree but it was still cutting when I put it away. I will sharpen it, but I am 100% confident that's not it. And the bogging now happens instantaneously on a cold saw that was just started. So I highly doubt it's a piston scuffing that quick, especially since I can see all the machining lines on the piston skirt with the borescope.
 

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