question for 511ax users ? ? ?

mtngun · Dec 21, 2009

I recently took delivery of a Jolly Star grinder as discussed in another thread. The Jolly Star appears to be the same as a 511ax minus the wheel wear compensation.

Initial tests on the Jolly Star produced unequal cutter lengths on the right side vs. left side. I haven't thrown in the towel just yet because I'm still getting to know this grinder and I'll probably become more proficient with practice.

But ...... my question is, have you 511ax owners found that the wheel wear compensation -- moving the vice fore and aft -- has an effect on unequal cutter lengths ? Or in other words, can you use the wheel wear compensation to dial in equal cutter lengths for a particular wheel ?

mtngun · Dec 27, 2009

No one answered my question, and I don't have a 511ax to test, so I experimented with different wheel diameters on my Jolly Star to see if the wheel diameter had a noticeable effect on equal cutter lengths.

Test sample was a scrap piece of 3/8" full chisel chain, sharpening 60/80/30. The chain was brand new so I was merely grazing the cutter, giving it a light touch up. Except for swapping the angles from Left to Right, no other adjustments were made during the test.

Supplied 3/16" x 5 3/4" wheel:

Left cutters average 0.3963", with 0.025" spread.

Right cutters average 0.3870", with 0.017" spread

Left cutters 0.0093" longer than Right, on average

3/16" x 4 1/4" wheel

Left cutters average 0.3982", with 0.005" spread

Right cutters average 0.3892", with 0.017" spread

Left cutters 0.009" longer than Right, on average.

Conclusion: the wheel diameter had no measureable impact on cutter length equality. Based soley on this test, it's not clear why you would need compensation for wheel wear as on the 511ax.

mikenc · Feb 20, 2010

Just ran across your tread. I have had a 511AX for a few months. Not used it to much but have found out if you are not careful on set up you will cut one side shorter than the other.

When switching from side to side if you don't make sure you lock chain with same pressure against stop you will end up with longer or shorter cutters.

Philbert · Feb 20, 2010

mtngun,

The left/right cutter thing probably has to do with the accuracy of the vice angle rotation index plate screwed on the base of your grinder (the thingy with the numbers and short lines printed on it in your photo). It is probably off a hair or so.

You have a couple of options before throwing in the towel.

1) Take a new chain with identical cutters and set up the grinder to duplicate these angles, Note the setting for right and left cutters (e.g, 29 degrees Right and 31 degrees Left). Use these (or play with a used chain until you get the numbers right).

2) Remove the index plate, make the mounting holes oblong, and try to remount it so that it is accurate. Then do something to keep it from moving.

The wheel wear compensator does not affect the top plate angle. However, it could affect the side plate cutting angle. If you think of how the rim of the grinding wheel touches the side plate, you can imagine how a wheel with a smaller diameter would grind at a steeper angle due to the tighter curvature at the same part of the rim.

It's a nice grinder, and I like your self centering vice better than the one on my 511a (no 'x'!). Although, on my older style vice I can shift the chain over slightly to center it.

Philbert

Wood Doctor · Nov 10, 2010

My Oregon 511a produces identical cutters right and left. I recently sharpened a brand new chain that had been used only once (by me) for three cutting sessions.

My grinder knocked off the same amount on both sides. I was very pleased. The Oregon 511a is tops in my book. All the chains I have sharpened with this grinder show no pull to the right or left. Thus far, all of my customers are satisified, and so am I.

Oregon 511a Rocks!

mtngun · Nov 10, 2010

Wood Doctor said:
My Oregon 511a produces identical cutters right and left.

And you know this because ....... ? ? ?

Measurements ? ? ?

After using it more, I'm happy with the Jolly Star. My biggest beef is seeing the degree marks, which are hidden underneath the clamping handle. That's probably the Jolly Star's limiting factor to perfectly equal length cutters.

Wood Doctor · Nov 12, 2010

mtngun said:
And you know this because ....... ? ? ?

Measurements ? ? ?

After using it more, I'm happy with the Jolly Star. My biggest beef is seeing the degree marks, which are hidden underneath the clamping handle. That's probably the Jolly Star's limiting factor to perfectly equal length cutters.

Actually I did measure the teeth on both sides but hardly had to. The 20" Stihl chain loop was initially brand new, used in a few cutting sessions but not rocked. I sharpened all the cutters on one side and did not move the back stop setting. When I then sharpened the cutters on the other side, the same amount was being removed and no adustments to the back stop were required.

Several cutter measurements on both sides using a digital caliper verified this. In my book, the Oregon 511a is a precision instrument. :greenchainsaw:

alongo · Nov 16, 2010

Having the same problem with a 511ax. back stop is so flimsey its know wonder its off. I did reposition the gauge plate it was way off and in crooked. What is a permissable difference between the right and left before you have to worry about it. Mine would be noticable with the naked eye at first , but since messing around with it it's better, less than 10 tho of an inch, is that too much. It,s a great machine but stopping mechanism is not one of it's strong points, needs a stronger spring and something done to take out the slop. Guy at oregon was of little help. Al

Wood Doctor · Nov 17, 2010

alongo said:
Having the same problem with a 511ax. back stop is so flimsey its know wonder its off. I did reposition the gauge plate it was way off and in crooked. What is a permissable difference between the right and left before you have to worry about it. Mine would be noticable with the naked eye at first , but since messing around with it it's better, less than 10 tho of an inch, is that too much. It's a great machine but stopping mechanism is not one of it's strong points, needs a stronger spring and something done to take out the slop. Guy at oregon was of little help. Al

I would have to agree with that criticism, although I have not seen a better design on other machines. Most are actually worse than the Oregon. They all seem to have some play in the cutter back stop. I guess I have become somewhat skilled in compensating for this with a fingertip press on the cutter to help secure it to the stop just before I squeeze the chain and lower the wheel.

BTW, I was able to rebuild a cheap Harbor Freight grinder and can now use it to handle the rakers (depth gauges). I use the 511a to sharpen the cutters and the little HF monster to take down the rakers. It seems to work well enough for that. So, that's one less wheel change and depth adjustment per chain.

The original owner of the HF machine got so frustrated trying to use it that he gave it to me. The first piece I rebuilt on the HF machine was the back stop--the flimsiest piece I have ever seen. I also fixed the chain pinch that was not even working. The cam mechanism on the 511a is still the best squeezer I've seen.

almondgt · Nov 21, 2010

511a oregon grinder

Purchased my 511a several years ago and it did not grind well at all to begin with. Lots of time spent fiddling around and getting the feel for the desired sharp chain finish. I found the best way to line up the grinder is to start with a new 3/8 chain> grinder power disconnected find the sweet spot that the correct size grinding disk seats the best in the chain cutter, mark this spot on your index plate with pencil. Rotate clamping assembly to do the other side and repeat above mentioned. I am comfortable with the abiltiy of the grinder now. I still use a caliper to check the length of the last finished cutter on the first side of the chain to the grinding of the first cutter on the second side of the chain. I looked at moving the index plate but it is rivetted on and not worth goofing up the appearance of the machine if you are not a handy man. You would expect better quality from the 511a manufacturer for the price of the machine but quality and precision have gone along the wayside for the price of mass production and profit. I would assume the 511ax may have similar issues but I have no experience with that machine.
:chainsawguy:

Mr. sharp · Aug 31, 2012

511a, 511ax uneven cutter length fix

The Oregon 511a and the 511ax grinders all have the same problem. If you get a piece of shim stock .010 thick X about 3/4" high, you will have to start out with a piece about 2" long. Roll it around a round piece of pipe or round piece of rod about the same size as the hole (as showen in pic.). Cut off small amounts at a time until it fits in the hole. A bit smaller is fine. Insert it into the hole and it will take care of uneven cutter lengths. Moving the vise forward or back will NOT take care of this problem.
View attachment 250874

Pat Elliott · Dec 10, 2012

Fixing the Side to Side Length Difference

I just bought a 511AX the other day. I have been doing research on them for about a year, also waiting for the right price to show up. Before i every bought the unit I had ran accross a video on you tube, with a guy using a 511a. He talked about the same issue with the wheel wear, and how he was tired of having to adjust and reshape the stone wheel. His solution was to buy a wheel from Diamond Wheel Inc. I bought two, becuase I run two different size chains 3/8, and .325. The total cost was about 197.00 delivered, for both. I know seams pricey, but after cutting about 6-9 chains last night and messuring with a set of calipers, there was less than 8 thousands difference in all the tooth length. The bonus is you never have to reshape the wheel, they never get smaller, and they are to get between 1200-1500 sharpening per wheel. The guy told me from the company that aslong as you do not abuse them, you can get alot more. I have heard up to 4000 sharpenings per chains. By the way I have two pink stone wheels for sale if someone wants to pick up another set. They are brand new, but dont want new price.

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