051 to 076

BlueRider said:

Would you care to expand on the 051 to 075 conversion? I have gathered all the parts except gaskets for a similar conversion. The bigest reason I have not done mine is that the new jug is the newer style with round sides while my old jug has the square base with the two little notches. I think if I mill .060" off the bottom of the cylinder and then make a "gasket" out of .060" aluminium to cover the small area of the notches in the case not covered by the new cylinder I should be ok. I have a friend with a mill but just havent found the tuime to get over and shave my cylinder down.

The other delima I am havng is whether to use the muffler off the TS760 or if I should cut the manifold off it and graft it onto the 051 muffler, any thoughts? The 051 muffler actualy has a bigger expansion chamber which is why I was thionking about the muffler mod. How did you do the re threading for the larger cylinder studs?

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OK, to avod derailment, here are some details of the conversion. I'll start by saying I'm no where near the most knowledgable on this topic, but have done it and it runs very nicely (could do with some tune up help though, hint hint).

As far as I know, there haven't been any mods to the 111cc p&c the mean different bases/mounting. My 076 donar was a brazillian MTX.45 (rail cutoff saw), which sounds similar to yours as it must be quite recent. It looked quite different to the 051 cylinder, but I realised the actualy barrel compared to stud/bolt hole placing was identical. So I'd guess yours are, offer them up to each other and look. Or put the 58mm piston on the con rod, place the cylinder over it, line it up and rotate the crank (slowly...). Check it all clears. I don't think you'll have to do any milling.

To put the studs in, I drilled out the 051 bolt holes with a 5mm bit. This is the drill for M6 (M6x1 - standard). I used an electric drill, after covering up the open crankcase, and dipped the drill bit in grease (to further stop shavings). I drilled slow, and kept the drill analy plumb. I reasoned, I couldn't go too far wrong, the old hole would mostly guide me. Had to be careful not to go too far - wouldn't want to drill through the bottom, bye bye crankcase. Then tapped these out, two I could do with a tapered tap, the other two were properly blind so used a plug tap to finish. Studs could then be fitted and the cylinder lined up no worries!

I sued the 076 muffler, hadn't thought about chambers etc, but it fitted and the other didn't. Didn't give it much thought really, just thought it would be designed for that p&c so why try pi55 around with the other making it fit. I'm sure someone that actually knows could advise you better.

That was basically all I did, everything else interchanges fine. I also used the 076 carb, but is there a difference? I know they're both the HS60A, but wouldn't 22cc difference warrant bigger jets?

I'm thhinking about the same project, I guess you could machine the stud and thread it not to risk messing up the case, are all the studs 6mm on the 076 and 075 saws, and it also may depend on the 051 you use since they were made from 72 to the 80'd i believe some were different. i thought the 051 muffler was the same since the gasket it uses is the same. How strong is the saw compared to the 89 cc jug ?

studs...

want to convert mine in the far future, but i was thinking of making my own studs with a lathe....but i would need dimensions and pictures...can anyone help here or is this a bad idea???? i figure i can make studs to screw into the 051 case and still keep the possiblility of returning the saw to its origonal model because it's in good condition...and i more or less got it for free too....

How strong is the saw compared to the 89 cc jug ?

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im curious also as too what is the "real" cutting power difference between these models...i may just leave it as is once i replacethe ignition points....

The studs are a high grade of heat treated steel ,and ground.. buy them, even used (CSP has them).

Brownpot Deaton said:

im curious also as too what is the "real" cutting power difference between these models...i may just leave it as is once i replacethe ignition points....

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I couldn't tell you that - the 051 wasn't running, I swapped the ignition too...
It's very strong now, but needs tuning so will get better, just need to swap the handles becuase there's a space to access the carb screws on the 076 (unlike the 051)

Lakeside53 said:

The studs are a high grade of heat treated steel ,and ground.. buy them, even used (CSP has them).

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+1
the studs look and feel very high quality steel, i wouldn't mess with them. Also, tapping the crankcase to M6 won't hurt it, if you want to put the 051 jug back on, just just M6 bolts. My 056 has M6 cylinder bolts. You'd just have to drill the cylinder base out.

Lakeside53 said:

The studs are a high grade of heat treated steel ,and ground.. buy them, even used (CSP has them).

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Brownpot; not so much the threads are ground but are probably rolled first, it helps the grain in such a way you cannot make up on a lathe.

Lakeside53 said:

The studs are a high grade of heat treated steel ,and ground.. buy them, even used (CSP has them).

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is there any reason you couldnt use a high strength cap/torx screw? im thinking along the lines of a 12.9 of the proper length?

my only thought about studs is that they would save on wear in the thread in the crankcase, but id think that the saw shouldnt be taken apart that much to make a difference. what type of thread locker would you use on the stud?

my final question concerns the service manual and updated parts over time. page 17(i think) indicates that the orginal carb-riser block gasket was 0.5mm, the replacement is 1.5mm--why the change?

dave

How strong is the saw compared to the 89 cc jug ?[/QUOTE]

No contest. I have run healthy versions of both and though the 051 isn't exactly a slouch, but as soon as the bars get longer than 24" the difference becomes very apparent. I have 2 075's and they are one of the torqiest saws I have ever run. Not super fast, but they pull long bars the same as they pull short ones. One of the best milling saws out there. If you lock the throttle and use the wrap handle with your left hand while you use the mill handle with your right, then you realize how well placed the manual opiler is.

hoss said:

How strong is the saw compared to the 89 cc jug ?

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No contest. I have run healthy versions of both and though the 051 isn't exactly a slouch, but as soon as the bars get longer than 24" the difference becomes very apparent. I have 2 075's and they are one of the torqiest saws I have ever run. Not super fast, but they pull long bars the same as they pull short ones. One of the best milling saws out there. If you lock the throttle and use the wrap handle with your left hand while you use the mill handle with your right, then you realize how well placed the manual opiler is.[/QUOTE]

i understand the torque/chain speed difference(effectively a diesel-gas comparision i think), but what current saw would you rate as being equilivant to both the 051 and the 076 with respect to brute power. i dont have a lot of time on my 051 in large sticks(only bucking 20" black spruce and smaller birch), but i havent seen anything here that even thinks it can stall my 051.

thanks.

dave

djmercer1 said:

is there any reason you couldnt use a high strength cap/torx screw? im thinking along the lines of a 12.9 of the proper length?

my only thought about studs is that they would save on wear in the thread in the crankcase, but id think that the saw shouldnt be taken apart that much to make a difference. what type of thread locker would you use on the stud?

my final question concerns the service manual and updated parts over time. page 17(i think) indicates that the orginal carb-riser block gasket was 0.5mm, the replacement is 1.5mm--why the change?

dave

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Don't know. I assume Stihl has a good reason to use studs in the 75/76 and 041S... Thread locker? - probably none, but.. if you wanted to, 24x - Blue..

I see that your 051 is a newer model with the oil filler on the side. The 051 I had planed to convert is an older style with the oil filler on the top. my doner saw was a ts 760 for the manifold and muffler and a new OEM P&C. on my 051 I will have to grind a bit on the inside flywheel cover, about .030" at the center of the bulge in the base of the cylinder. On the old style 051 case there is also a notch on each side of the case opening. it looks like it is for rod clearance but the rod would clear without it so I am guessing it has to do with the movement of gases. the extreme end of these notches is not covered by the ts760 cylinder, there is a gap of about .020". this is why I was thinking I would mill .060" off the bottom of the cylinder and then make a gasket ot of .060 aluminium plate.

I also own a newer 051 similar to your saw that did not require the grinding or the gasket mod. I had not planed to mod that saw as it is in minty condition. I think I will have a look at the case opening on my newer 051.

i understand the torque/chain speed difference(effectively a diesel-gas comparision i think), but what current saw would you rate as being equilivant to both the 051 and the 076 with respect to brute power. i dont have a lot of time on my 051 in large sticks(only bucking 20" black spruce and smaller birch), but i havent seen anything here that even thinks it can stall my 051.

thanks.

dave[/QUOTE]

Well we are not exactly comparing apples to apples here, but here goes. The 051 has similar hp to a 460 but cuts totaly different. The 460 will be faster until the wood gets big then the 051 will shine. An 075/76 has the same hp as a 660 but will pull a much longer bar way more comfortably. A 32" bar with full comp buried in hardwood would be a chore with a 660 (though it will do it), but would be no problem with an 075. The 075 would be cutting the same as if it were in 20" wood.

076 studs...

are 041 super studs the saapable of being interchanged with an 076 studs..?(can't find the 076 studs...)me length and c

You can buy the studs new from Stihl....

And I'm sure Cheapstihlparts has some.

I have more ts 760 carcass saws than I can shake a stick at if I can help you with parts (used) pm me.

kevlar: I have more ts 760 carcass saws than I can shake a stick at if I can help you with parts (used) pm me.

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sent you pm. think you can help me???

Kevlar doesn't have one, but I really would love a decent P&C for an 076... Can't afford new OEM and don't want aftermarket. Can anyone help?

dido

Kevlar doesn't have one, but I really would love a decent P&C for an 076... Can't afford new OEM and don't want aftermarket. Can anyone help?

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i second that

...actually if someone makes an offer, you can take it first harry since you were the first to ask...

kevlar said:

I have more ts 760 carcass saws than I can shake a stick at if I can help you with parts (used) pm me.

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Some of them may be worth having a second look at, there were 5 different crankcases for this series, three were "Stone Cutter" only and two were direct replacements for their chainsaw counterparts.

4205 020 2102 Crankcase TS510
4205 020 2103 Crankcase TS760
4205 020 2104 Crankcase TS760 with Ø#400mm / 16''#Guard
1111 020 2102 Crankcase TS510 with Serial Number up to X 23531439
1111 020 2116 Crankcase TS760 with Serial Number up to X 23529742

1111 020 2102 Crankcase 050/051
1111 020 2116 Crankcase 075
1111 020 2116 Crankcase 076

Something else.... I actually prefer running the 075 to the 084/88's.. Not sure what it is and I am talking about purely stock form for once since I have never modded either.