Drilled a hole in my cover to run a K&N filter (pics)

[PapaWhitebeard]

OEM?

OEM = parlance for as supplied from the factory (ie “Original Equipment Manufacturer” even though most parts on any thing with a motor are made by someone other than GM or Harley Davidson or Stihl or whoever it is, OEM means “Stihl” if you’re referring to a Stihl saw). Car and moto industry shorthand (sorry)

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

They are not waterproof.
Funny story, I had a K@N filter on my race quad and noticed water getting into it so I called K@N. They claim the outerwears are water resistant not water proof. I went back to foam filters.
If you leave the saw out in the rain, the filter will be wet and the saw will run like poo.
It's your saw do whatever you like to it but work saws have the air filter under the cover for a reason.

Thanks for letting me know! I’ve raced with them in the rain loads and loads of times but never left a vehicle out overnight in the rain.

Because K&N and outerwears love love love telling people they are totally waterproof. Geez… see all this learning ??? Thanks fella. Guess these old bones needs to haul the saw back into the shop every single when I’m working at my place every night after all…

Luckily where I live in California it only rains about 15 days in a row once a year and then its drought city… (and the mountain lions come down from up the mountain) except El Niño years and then it’s outright madness for however many weeks until it stops. But the mountain lions seem to come out less during the storms. (Not kidding about the mountain lions they’re on my property pretty much every night)

 

[Sidecarflip]

At one time I sold K&N filters (complete line) on my .com website but dropped them a few years ago simply because while they work, they still pass debris to an extent. Only K&N I now have that I use personally is the intake filter on my 10 horse Quincy reciprocating compressor because they fit nicely inside the OEM filter housing and on my F350 Ford diesel pickup truck and it has a K&N cold air intake.

The K&N recharge kits are also pretty expensive so I've switched from them to Bel-Ray filter oil (which changes the filters from red to blue), no issue and the Bel-Ray filter oil is much less expensive as well plus I clean mine with either ZEP purple cleaner or Purple Power in a spritz bottle and I always soak them for a while and then rinse them off carefully under warm water, never pressure wash them as it destroys the 'gauze' media.

K&N's have a huge retail markup on them as well. I run the Red Beard oiled foam air cleaner on my Echo. Problem with it is, it's messy and a PITA to oil but I keep a spare foam (oiled) in a zip lock bag to switch out and I 'O' ringed the stud where the Red Beard filter housing fits on the stud because it will pass fines into the carb. For as much as I use my saws (infrequently) what I use works just fine for me.

K&N filters do have much less restriction than a stock flocked filter, least in my opinion they do but the initial retail cost is pretty steep.

Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it at your discretion.

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

At one time I sold K&N filters (complete line) on my .com website but dropped them a few years ago simply because while they work, they still pass debris to an extent. Only K&N I now have that I use personally is the intake filter on my 10 horse Quincy reciprocating compressor because they fit nicely inside the OEM filter housing and on my F350 Ford diesel pickup truck and it has a K&N cold air intake.

The K&N recharge kits are also pretty expensive so I've switched from them to Bel-Ray filter oil (which changes the filters from red to blue), no issue and the Bel-Ray filter oil is much less expensive as well plus I clean mine with either ZEP purple cleaner or Purple Power in a spritz bottle and I always soak them for a while and then rinse them off carefully under warm water, never pressure wash them as it destroys the 'gauze' media.

K&N's have a huge retail markup on them as well. I run the Red Beard oiled foam air cleaner on my Echo. Problem with it is, it's messy and a PITA to oil but I keep a spare foam (oiled) in a zip lock bag to switch out and I 'O' ringed the stud where the Red Beard filter housing fits on the stud because it will pass fines into the carb. For as much as I use my saws (infrequently) what I use works just fine for me.

K&N filters do have much less restriction than a stock flocked filter, least in my opinion they do but the initial retail cost is pretty steep.

Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it at your discretion.

Every single word of that is a fact. But if you’re willing to do the work man oh man does a giant pod filter make an incredible difference on engines that aren’t breathing enough.

Expensive? You bet. Fifty bucks for the one on this saw. Markup is probably >48 dollars over actual cost.

Messy? Like I said pain in the azz (and like you I keep spares in plastic ziplock bags)

Filtering ability? Yes there’s better… but with the bags on them they do what I need them to do. Without the bags on them in my cars I change oil more often but I’m curious so I’ll check for silica and I’ll find what I find.

PERFORMANCE - my MS462CM was running HOT. Unhealthy hot. I used 4 different filters on it in an attempt to get the saw to breathe more — overheating can be caused by lots of things - it can be remedied lots of ways. The K&N filter is one of the ways I tried. And it works. Quantifiably—measured with a temp sensor. As I posted in another thread I’m also paying ten bucks a gallon to get ethanol free gas… because I suspect the filling stations here are exceeding 15% by a nontrivial amount. Filling stations are required to post whether it’s E10 or E15 or whatever but none of my local filling stations do (nor did they seem to care). I’m informed and believe that some filling stations in California are FAR exceeding 15% ethanol in their gasoline.

But the saw runs like it should now. And for an expensive saw that I want to last a long long time I was NOT willing to burn it out into a premature death because of stupid California corn gas. And going to all this trouble with the K&N… if it makes this saw last as long as my other saws then yes it will be totally worth it.

I’m probably going to be leaving California… they’re making it too hard to live here. I mean… I sure love California. LOVE IT… but “they” are ruining this state. Regulating it beyond reason. Can’t buy the good paint I used to love—they made it illegal last century. Refrigerant for A/C in the cars… the good stuff is illegal. Poisoning the fuel in the name of some misguided idea that they’re supporting corn farmers and alleviating the wars in the Middle East. Gas cans illegal. Non-battery chainsaws are next. And in 2035 any new motor vehicle that isn’t electric will be… illegal to buy or sell.

So yeah K&N filters have a price—not just a monetary one. But for me it’s a price I’m very happy to pay so that my saw lasts a lifetime.

For all you folks out there… I remind you of the rule I try to live by “if it isn’t broken don’t fix it”

But for those of you interested in pod filters… here is some anecdotal data for you.

And I’m still a huge fan of K&N filters. Sure they aren’t for everybody. But man oh man have they made enormous performance benefits to me over the last >30 years.

/rant over

Thanks for all your thoughts fellas. I appreciate it. I’m a big fan of learning, too

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

Update: shocking as it may be those $5 knock off K&N’s are garbage.

I was curious to see how it was filtering the fines so when I serviced it I kept everything in the bowl of hot soapy water and I should have run it through a paint filter or whatever but I was lazy and just let the bowl of water evaporate during our little heat wave we’re having.

Sure enough the filter element grabbed fines like a champion. Video attached and you can see all the little itty bitty fines in there. And I put an hour meter on my saw—-this is what the filter grabbed after <1 hour… (and what’s in the 10 second video
Is after I brushed off all the big wood chips and sawdust off it with my fingers before I put it in the bowl of hot soapy water:

View attachment IMG_4944.mov

Ok here’s the problem… the seal between the flange and the filter element isn’t sealed. It’s a snap-fit and when I grabbed another out of the box the snap-fit connection was wide open. And without a seal at the flange it’s gonna suck in all the fines and anything else that intake vacuum can suck in there… so… unsealed the knockoff sure grabs a lot of fines…. but it probably lets an equal amount in as if you were running no filter at all…



So I suppose if you really wanted to use the $5 knock off and wanted go to the trouble you could take some sealant like shoe goo or whatever and seal the flange to the filter pod but for me if I ever put the original uncut cover back on I’m going straight back to oiled foam unifilters…

Anyway… for anybody reading this in the future thinking about the knockoff K&N’s… “beware the flange seal”

 

[Sidecarflip]

Get yourself a length of 030 MIG wire or similar and wrap it around the outer flange and twist secure it using a safety wire twisting tool. They have them at HF for under 10 bucks. I safety wire a lot of fasteners using it and it works fine with 030 MIG wire which is very malleable. I would do that with the K&N as well actually.

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

Get yourself a length of 030 MIG wire or similar and wrap it around the outer flange and twist secure it using a safety wire twisting tool. They have them at HF for under 10 bucks. I safety wire a lot of fasteners using it and it works fine with 030 MIG wire which is very malleable. I would do that with the K&N as well actually.

Lol yeah I could safety wire it (with actual safety wire and my ancient made in USA safety wire tool… it’s so old I’m not even sure what brand it is).

And yeah whether it’s a HF tool doesn’t matter. I’m a big fan of drilling fasteners and safety wiring them.

But for THIS… plastic to plastic… (and I can weld plastic) I’d really use shoe goo to seal it. Idk why but that stuff binds like epoxy and it will make a seal that’s watertight if you prep the material right but somehow remains flexible (instead of rigid and likely to break with use).

Like I used to look down on JB weld repairs too… but I busted the case of a Dirtbike open on a rock going through tall grass… case bleeding oil everywhere. I’m like in middle school or whatever. Me thinking about what my dad is gonna do to me when he finds out . Long story short: I hike home hike back with some wrenches, sandpaper and JB weld… rode it home the next day and that repair held for over 25 years!! (True story).

Anyway.. in reality I’m just never gonna use the knock off again

As for the K&N… the construction is completely different. The flange is sealed to the filter element in one solid piece of rubber. No seal issue to address.

But I like your creativity fella

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

Get yourself a length of 030 MIG wire or similar and wrap it around the outer flange and twist secure it using a safety wire twisting tool. They have them at HF for under 10 bucks. I safety wire a lot of fasteners using it and it works fine with 030 MIG wire which is very malleable. I would do that with the K&N as well actually.

K&N one piece rubber construction for anybody who cares:



Oh and BTW I love the mig wire innovation but you can buy rolls of stainless steel safety wire in just about any gauge you want… even the super thin 020 gauge is made to stretch before it breaks… and it’s super strong… you can buy giant rolls or little tiny “rounds” of them… I keep a big roll in the shop and tiny little rounds of safety wire in my carts and little boxes… I’m a big fan of safety wire.

 

[Sidecarflip]

In as much as we (remember I own and operate a welding and fabrication shop), we have 3 MIG welders and rolls and rolls of 030, 025 and 035 MIG wire and MIG wire exhibits the same characteristics of safety wire and that is what I use. You use what you have and I have literally miles of it.

 

[PapaWhitebeard]

In as much as we (remember I own and operate a welding and fabrication shop), we have 3 MIG welders and rolls and rolls of 030, 025 and 035 MIG wire and MIG wire exhibits the same characteristics of safety wire and that is what I use. You use what you have and I have literally miles of it.

Yeah man… use what you got. For sure !