064 av max revs

[jmssaws]

Seems to me that a saw tunes where it tunes and people tend to get hung up on a rpm but every saw will be a little different, even the same model.

The ported 064's I tune by ear and occasionally check with a tach are all around 14.3k but I haven't tuned a stock one in some time.
066/660 I generally have around 13.8k
That's not a rpm I set them to,that's just where they tune.
Find its happy spot and run it.

 

[jmssaws]

Tuned for work at 14k


Same saw tuned for play at 15k
It will 4stroke up around 16k but can't survive long

 

[Big_Wood]

Tuned for work at 14k


Same saw tuned for play at 15k
It will 4stroke up around 16k but can't survive long

can it not survive long because that's what you think or can it not because you've blown them up at that tune? i do agree 16k is to fast for a work saw and i don't even care to run a saw that fast for work. i have seen many run them that fast though. walkers tune their 064's as fast as you with nothing but a muffler mod. i tuned slightly rich as well until about 2 years ago. it takes some comparison to see and on these forums you don't get that. everyone is overly cautious which is fine. it's certainly better then being careless. my saws got beat by alot of saws out in the logging industry. i checked a few with a tach and realized they were turning way more RPM's then mine were. so i started cranking mine up and they run as good or better then many other builders saws. this is where the saying comes from. don't matter how good you are at building a saw. if you tune rich you lose.

 

[Big_Wood]

You call this too rich? Both will hold as high as 13K in the cut.

these 2 saws and your 390 have a strong consistant 4 stroke. they are rich by my standards. very usable unlike many others but they could be leaned out more without hurting them. what's that 390 at? i run mine at 13.8 and they don't 4 stroke much at all. i will add they probably each have more use already then yours will ever see lol walkers tune their 390's to 14.2 and i've seen them as old as 3 years still production cutting.

 

[jmssaws]

can it not survive long because that's what you think or can it not because you've blown them up at that tune? i do agree 16k is to fast for a work saw and i don't even care to run a saw that fast for work. i have seen many run them that fast though. walkers tune their 064's as fast as you with nothing but a muffler mod. i tuned slightly rich as well until about 2 years ago. it takes some comparison to see and on these forums you don't get that. everyone is overly cautious which is fine. it's certainly better then being careless. my saws got beat by alot of saws out in the logging industry. i checked a few with a tach and realized they were turning way more RPM's then mine were. so i started cranking mine up and they run as good or better then many other builders saws. this is where the saying comes from. don't matter how good you are at building a saw. if you tune rich you lose.

No saw can live very long at 16k
I build 064s mostly and probably ported 35 or 40 this past year and it's pretty rare to have one 4stroke much past 15k and even if they will they certainly ain't faster unless you are cutting a 8x8 and even then there so lean they may not be faster than a richer tune.
The way I port them about 14.3k is where there fastest with a 24".
I've not seen a stock one that will 4stroke at 14.5k but I've only worked on 150 or so,just guessing but I'm probably not far off.
A small saw might live a good while that fast but a 85cc stihl cant,big end bearing and the crank bearings won't allow it.

That is if you can build one that will go that fast,I would very much like to see a stock one with the exhaust at 103-4 and 25 degrees of blow down and a intake at 75 turn 16k through the tiny stock transfers.

 

[Big_Wood]

No saw can live very long at 16k
I build 064s mostly and probably ported 35 or 40 this past year and it's pretty rare to have one 4stroke much past 15k and even if they will they certainly ain't faster unless you are cutting a 8x8 and even then there so lean they may not be faster than a richer tune.
The way I port them about 14.3k is where there fastest with a 24".
I've not seen a stock one that will 4stroke at 14.5k but I've only worked on 150 or so,just guessing but I'm probably not far off.
A small saw might live a good while that fast but a 85cc stihl cant,big end bearing and the crank bearings won't allow it.

That is if you can build one that will go that fast,I would very much like to see a stock one with the exhaust at 103-4 and 25 degrees of blow down and a intake at 75 turn 16k through the tiny stock transfers.

i'm not in any way saying you lying or dissing the way you do things. i'm telling you what i have seen. walkers saws are all tune as high as you do with only a muffler mod. actually higher lol they are over 14.5 with just a muffler mod. lean, rich, whatever. efficient is efficient and to much fuel will kill performance no matter what anyone says. on forums i have to this day never seen a saw tuned the way i see in the woods and they last in the woods. i have owned/own saws ported by the group of porters you come from and none could beat what i have found in some of the camps i worked from. they will run with many of the saws tuned the same but at what you guys recommend they are slower then a saw with no machine work lol if you tune rich, you lose. i've never used an 064 falling and would never want to but the one i had that tuned out to 14.5 stock was pretty sweet for a stock saw.

 

[ferris076]

That is very intresting

 

[Inky]

It sure is (interesting that is). I was worried about seizing my saw but it looks like they can handle a bit more than I thought. Looks like it's somewhat a tradeoff between performance and longevity.

 

[Big_Wood]

That is very intresting

When I joined here I was fascinated on machining. I thought it was the next step in saw building. It really isn't. I saw with tightened squish and ported runs just as good for work as any machined cylinder saw I have run. When I joined I discussed a lot about this method of saw building with walkers and they told me the exact same thing. Walkers will machine a cylinder for a race saw but not on a work saw for the simple reason that a work saw does not need it. I've owned many saw from builder down south and I've never been impressed like the builder floaters say. Most guys getting saws built know nothing but what they read. I've ran a **** load of ported saws from different builders state side and Canada side . I would not doubt more then anyone else on here. I know what I like and the best saws I have ran had no cylinder machining at all. The real stupid thing is most don't want to pay for a port job with no machining just cause a few hacks that think they know better then anyone say it's required. I give them the credit of being able to machine a cylinder but I will not give them the credit of the best work saw!

 

[MattG]

you kidding me? an 064 will 4 stroke like a son of a ***** at 13k even stock. even stock i run them 14.5. they will even run 15. not telling you what to do as we live in different climates but here 14.5 on an 064 is near perfect but still on the slight rich side IMO. i bets you turn that thing up and it puts a smile on your face

Hi WestCoast,

Aren't some 064s fitted with rev limiter at 12k? I'm no expert - not by a long chalk.... a homeowner/hobbyist. My 064/066 specs say this:



With the left most figure being for the 064.

The manual continues in the carb H screw tuning section as follows:



Again, I quote the bit for the 064. But these 064s seem very confusing, as there are about a zillion different coil/flywheels configuration for this model.

I'm fortunate enough to possess one of these awesome saws....unfortunately as some will know (@jmssaws )... I'm nearly useless at tuning. But for what it's worth mine certainly IS NOT REV LIMITED by it's coil.

Do any of you folks know what the manual is talking about? Was it's author stoned at the time?

(EDIT: I've just read more of the thread, and see @Definitive Dave 's post, where he mentions unlimited coil option... so for me it's probably just a case of the manual being a little sparing with the truth - given all the model variants)

 

[Inky]

Yep there are many experts on the internet

I'm not a professional so i don't need the absolute best performance, and I'm not rich so i don't want to kill my saws- they're all stock and two of the three are in the region of 25 years old. Even porting is out of my scope, let alone machining cylinders. I'll be erring on the side of caution with my tuning i reckon.
Having said that, thanks for the input; it all helps. Cheers, inky

 

[Inky]

Hey MartG, yeah that's sorta the confusion i ran into...

 

[Inky]

...MattG..typo, .sorry.

 

[Big_Wood]

Hi WestCoast,

Aren't some 064s fitted with rev limiter at 12k? I'm no expert - not by a long chalk.... a homeowner/hobbyist. My 064/066 specs say this:

View attachment 547699

With the left most figure being for the 064.

The manual continues in the carb H screw tuning section as follows:

View attachment 547700

Again, I quote the bit for the 064. But these 064s seem very confusing, as there are about a zillion different coil/flywheels configuration for this model.

I'm fortunate enough to possess one of these awesome saws....unfortunately as some will know (@jmssaws )... I'm nearly useless at tuning. But for what it's worth mine certainly IS NOT REV LIMITED by it's coil.

Do any of you folks know what the manual is talking about? Was it's author stoned at the time?

(EDIT: I've just read more of the thread, and see @Definitive Dave 's post, where he mentions unlimited coil option... so for me it's probably just a case of the manual being a little sparing with the truth - given all the model variants)

every 064 i have ever owned or tuned had an unlimited coil on them. they weren't popular here at all. i'll take a flat top 66 or 066/660 anyday.

 

[MattG]

every 064 i have ever owned or tuned had an unlimited coil on them. they weren't popular here at all. i'll take a flat top 66 or 066/660 anyday.

Yeah, well like I said mine and @Inky 's are certainly unlimited coil (which is obviously best) too, so it's just a shame that the manual is written a tad confusingly.

 

[blsnelling]

Only 064s with the CDIC "red light" coil are rev limited. They don't have the red light like the 066, but it's the same coil and has the same decal on the air filter cover. I've had one that was limited and three that weren't.

 

[Inky]

So the coil in mine has an extra (unattached) wire which from what I've read would mean it's the red light limited coil? But it will go past 14000 with no breakdown so can anyone explain that please? The coil is a Bosch 2 204 222 108...
thanks, inky

 

[MattG]

So the coil in mine has an extra (unattached) wire which from what I've read would mean it's the red light limited coil? But it will go past 14000 with no breakdown so can anyone explain that please? The coil is a Bosch 2 204 222 108...
thanks, inky

Hi Inky,

If you're taching past 14k then it just has to be an unlimited coil.

I played with my 064 yesterday and I'm useless at tuning properly by ear.... I supplement my tuning with a tach (and frequently pester AS members @jmssaws @blsnelling, @Chris-PA to mention but a few, to listen to the odd youtube clip to give me a verdict). I set up my 064 taching it at 13.4-13.5k with WOT and no load, and even my deaf old ears can tell that it's four-stroking quite a lot through this cut. (I think I'd be better at tuning this saw with more bigger wood!)

 

[ferris076]

@westcoaster90
Sry for the late question, but cuba has a so ******* bad connection.

How do u tune the saws?
How lean do u make them?
Barely no 4 stroking?

 

[Big_Wood]

@westcoaster90
Sry for the late question, but cuba has a so ****ing bad connection.

How do u tune the saws?
How lean do u make them?
Barely no 4 stroking?

i start rich and get them warmed up. once warm i set them on a stump and go WOT while leaning it out to the point where you can just hear 4 stroking in an out. to most it would not even sound like 4 stroking. when i checked that stock 064 after tuning by ear it was up at 14.5 and i don't doubt it would even run 15. 14.5 was where it liked it though. i'm not telling you what to do, you gotta run what your comfortable with. that 064 i tuned that high still lives.