redheadwoodshed
Freebird
Has anyone tried a car engine on a home built band mill.I have a 2.8 v6 ford engine I was thinking about trying.I think it puts out 190hp.
2.8l v6 engine on a band sawmill?
- Thread starter redheadwoodshed
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scor440
ArboristSite Member
discounthunter
Addicted to ArboristSite
weight would be an issue. most mill are 13hp-25hp, so you have lots more than needed along with components needed for the motor. but that aside ,no doubt it will cut some wood!
redheadwoodshed
Freebird
From what I can find out on the 'net, the 2.8 weighs in at around 300 lbs. then add a fuel tank,battery, radiator, I'm sure it would be heavy.Also from the 'net, it supposed to kick out 205 fps @3000rpm.I think it would cut pretty good if you just kept the throttle steady. Besides the weight issue, does anyone have any other objection.These engines can be had cheaper than a new Honda 13 hp. I'm not building my mill to be portable, so I'm not really concerned as much about the weight. I've got some good wheels for the carriage that will carry the load, no problem.And I'm trying to come up with the best way to install a drive.Maybe with the 12v charging system I could drive it with a reversible electric motor.
redheadwoodshed
Freebird
Does anyone have that book, is it any good?Good info etc.?
Jim Timber
1/4 bubble off
You could use that engine to run a 30KW generator and run a 10hp electric motor for the mill... still having enough to run AC, a tv, coffee pot, and fridge - along with a boomin stereo and some yard lights.
Your fuel costs will make using it a false economy.
Your fuel costs will make using it a false economy.
DaltonPaull
ArboristSite Operative
I'm planing to use a 1000CC Kawasaki Ninja engine for my mill. Got the complete running engine/transmission/charging/starting/ingnition systems for $100.
Lots of old mills used big diesel engines and the LT40 can come with a 50HP diesel but I do think a V6 would be getting a little excessive. Is there a Toyota 4cyl you can get just as cheap?
Lots of old mills used big diesel engines and the LT40 can come with a 50HP diesel but I do think a V6 would be getting a little excessive. Is there a Toyota 4cyl you can get just as cheap?
tolman_paul
ArboristSite Guru
The thing to remember with car and especially motorcycle engines is they are not designed to put out their full hp for extended running time. They are designed to put out that full power only for short periods of time, i.e. measured in the seconds. The power and rpm they operate at at cruising speed is much lower, and they aren't pulling a heavy load. So while your engine may have a peak hp that seems impressive, the hp you can use when running at an rpm for extended run times will be much lower.
Jim Timber
1/4 bubble off
I don't even care about the peak HP numbers - the question is how much of that fuel is being turned into sawdust, and how much of it is just being turned into heat and smoke?
The only reason for more HP IMO, would be to make the blade spin faster. Anything above the mechanical threshold of the blade and you're going to break them, so you have a limited window of what's even beneficial.
The only reason for more HP IMO, would be to make the blade spin faster. Anything above the mechanical threshold of the blade and you're going to break them, so you have a limited window of what's even beneficial.
redheadwoodshed
Freebird
The engine is free, it puts out around 200 fp of torque at 3000 rpm.I don't see bogging down a v 6 on something a lawnmower engine can run.I was just wondering if anybody had done it before, and how they set it up etc.
Jim Timber
1/4 bubble off
It most certainly won't bog down - but when gas is $4/gal, do you really want to burn any more of it than you have to? The cost of a few hundred dollar engine might be absorbed/recouped in a year in efficiency savings.
Burlhunter13
ArboristSite Operative
It would be nice to run a larger engine when pulling a 3" or 4" bandblades!!! Might not break as easily if snagged. My 15hp motor can blow apart a 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 band like a piece of thread when it wants too. I had no idea the power behind smaller motors. 200+ hp seems a bit much. Even the largest woodmizer 1000 bandmill uses a 30hp electric motor, Which is the gas equivalent of a 70-90hp. Yours is over double that. Maybe you can gear the rpms way way down for torque. You will also have the additional cost of fuel/maintenance. Would be neat though. Post pics!
DaltonPaull
ArboristSite Operative
The engine I'm using is 137HP at 10K RPM but I'm planing to electronically govern it to 5K or so and get ~50HP which will leave plenty of reserve. I doubt demand will exceed 15HP on average.
DaltonPaull
ArboristSite Operative
Do some research, take some data and let us know. I haven't seen much published data for small engine efficiency. A small diesel engine would be nice for efficency but they cost more than a few hundred dollars.
redheadwoodshed
Freebird
Is the engine mounted on your carriage? How do you transmit power to the band wheels? Thanks!
DaltonPaull
ArboristSite Operative
It's still in the conceptual stage but yes, the engine will be mounted on the carriage. I'm going with something similar to the Linn Lumber design. It seams the easiest/cheapest thing to do will be to just use a motorcycle chain and sprocket to connect it up.
user 64030
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The 2.8L is a good little engine. Came out in everything from the Pinto to the Bronco II / Ranger. Production ended I think around 88/89 as they switched to the 2.9 which was basically the same engine w/ EFI. The 2.8 did have timing gears, and solid lifter cams where the 2.9 used a timing chain and hydraulic lifters. Makes no mind for a saw mill but us gear heads appreciate those features. If I recall my Bronco II w/ 31" mud tires and 3:73:1 gears averaged around 23-25 MPG. Not completely unrepresentable for a lifted 4x4 w/ 80's engine tech.
As for a way to mount it, or power something, look to the boat/marine world. An I/O (inboard/Outboard) boat uses a flex coupler to transfer power from the crank of the engine to the stern-drive.
The flex couple is basically a plate that bolts to the flywheel, and in the center has a large rubber isolator. Inside the isolator is a set of female splines.
Like this:
IF the 2.8 was ever in a boat, or you could find a compatible (bolt patter/balance) coupler and then the input shaft from a matching stern drive the input shaft could be modifies to drive your bandsaw. The input shafts terminate in a universal joint so either finding a matching drive flange to mount to the u-joint or by having a machine shop add a flange on the end.
dw
As for a way to mount it, or power something, look to the boat/marine world. An I/O (inboard/Outboard) boat uses a flex coupler to transfer power from the crank of the engine to the stern-drive.
The flex couple is basically a plate that bolts to the flywheel, and in the center has a large rubber isolator. Inside the isolator is a set of female splines.
Like this:
IF the 2.8 was ever in a boat, or you could find a compatible (bolt patter/balance) coupler and then the input shaft from a matching stern drive the input shaft could be modifies to drive your bandsaw. The input shafts terminate in a universal joint so either finding a matching drive flange to mount to the u-joint or by having a machine shop add a flange on the end.
dw
jnl502
ArboristSite Operative
The 2.8L is a good little engine. Came out in everything from the Pinto to the Bronco II / Ranger. Production ended I think around 88/89 as they switched to the 2.9 which was basically the same engine w/ EFI. The 2.8 did have timing gears, and solid lifter cams where the 2.9 used a timing chain and hydraulic lifters. Makes no mind for a saw mill but us gear heads appreciate those features. If I recall my Bronco II w/ 31" mud tires and 3:73:1 gears averaged around 23-25 MPG. Not completely unrepresentable for a lifted 4x4 w/ 80's engine tech.
As for a way to mount it, or power something, look to the boat/marine world. An I/O (inboard/Outboard) boat uses a flex coupler to transfer power from the crank of the engine to the stern-drive.
The flex couple is basically a plate that bolts to the flywheel, and in the center has a large rubber isolator. Inside the isolator is a set of female splines.
Like this:
IF the 2.8 was ever in a boat, or you could find a compatible (bolt patter/balance) coupler and then the input shaft from a matching stern drive the input shaft could be modifies to drive your bandsaw. The input shafts terminate in a universal joint so either finding a matching drive flange to mount to the u-joint or by having a machine shop add a flange on the end.
dw
Not to say that wouldn't work but your trying to over engineer this mill's power plant. Even at idle that engine will make more power than needed. At idle or just above say1500 rpm it should sip gas.
A friend has a circle saw and 2 band resaws and ran them with a 6 cyl. power unit. A few years ago the 6 broke down and he needed to fill a large order. His dad knew where a big V8 non turbo out of old machine of some sort that was dead but ran great when parked. It is a monster but he is still running it because it uses less fuel and runs at just above idle. He can also flip a switch that makes it run a little faster and run tha circle saw and both resaws at the same time.
Also I would run it off the front of the crank. 2 V belts should work and be more compact and simple.
jnl
Jim Timber
1/4 bubble off
I wouldn't run it off the front at all. I'd use the block to add stiffness to the carriage and run a pulley direct drive off the flywheel. I'd use a flywheel too - from a manual. That's where your smoothness will come from since you won't have any rotating weight without a torque converter if you use a flex plate.
I'd also use the biggest pulley I could so you have lots of surface contact and don't need to torque it down to transfer the power without slippage. If you have the machinery, you could go real fancy and use the automotive clutch to apply or remove power, but that'd take some doing and you'd need a bellhousing and the clutch parts for that. It'd also add a lot of bulk to the package. An electric clutch on a jack shaft between the engine and drive wheel is probably your best bet.
I'd also use the biggest pulley I could so you have lots of surface contact and don't need to torque it down to transfer the power without slippage. If you have the machinery, you could go real fancy and use the automotive clutch to apply or remove power, but that'd take some doing and you'd need a bellhousing and the clutch parts for that. It'd also add a lot of bulk to the package. An electric clutch on a jack shaft between the engine and drive wheel is probably your best bet.
