2 cycle oil study
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NevadaWalrus
ArboristSite Operative
The test proves nothing regarding L&G 2 cycles. How many of you run your engines at 6300 rpm? Even the hand held 4 cycles run faster then that.
Stumper
One Man Band
Proves nothing but indicates something-Outboard oils can do well in aircooled motors. That matches my own past experience and the advice of my old saw mechanic friend who ran Pennzoil TCWIII oil in his personal saws. He had been inside a lot of saws-maybe he observed a few things.
My Azz. Did you see the deposit issues in those pics? None of the engines looked clean!Stumper said:
Stumper
One Man Band
So Ben, if they had used MX2T there would have been zero deposits after 280 hours? I'll grant that I was surprised at how nasty they were-particularly the 100% synthetic.. I also wonder why they named the Pennzoil products but didn't specify the brands of the other oils. Could we be loking at an older generation of snthetics with differnet composition and zero additives?.......Hmmmmm However ., I have to say that the TcWII and TCWIII oils mixed 32/1 never caused me problems. I have switched to running ISO-EGD/JASO FC rated oils based upon our discussions here.(I've been runningd MX2T and Citgo Superguard Aircooled.)
Stumper, That test is really old and yes IMO the results suck. There should never be carbon deposits around the ring land area as there was in the photos. Those engines are already expiereancing blowby and they are not that old! I have taken down a simular Rotax sled engine with 10k on it and the pistons looked cleaner than that and it was run on el cheapo castrol snowmobile oil.
BTW I am running citgo Sea and Snow right now in my snowmobile and am quit happy with it. In case you didnt know sea and snow, citgo aircooled and Yamalube 2s semi synthitic are all the same oil. I know you going to ask why i am not using MX2T in it. Becaus ethis sleds injection sytem runs at about 20:1 and mx 2t would get a little expensive. I am using the $7.99 a gallon citgo stuff as a result.
As far as tcw3 oils go. If you knew what they where made of and how they work you would never use them in anything, but a boat.
BTW I am running citgo Sea and Snow right now in my snowmobile and am quit happy with it. In case you didnt know sea and snow, citgo aircooled and Yamalube 2s semi synthitic are all the same oil. I know you going to ask why i am not using MX2T in it. Becaus ethis sleds injection sytem runs at about 20:1 and mx 2t would get a little expensive. I am using the $7.99 a gallon citgo stuff as a result.
As far as tcw3 oils go. If you knew what they where made of and how they work you would never use them in anything, but a boat.
BTW just cause something is labeled as synthetic doesnt meen it is any better or is even a real synthetic.
max2cam
ArboristSite Guru
bwalker said:
Is that Citgo Sea and Snow?
It would be good to know if it's the same as Citgo Air Cooled because here in snowmobile land S & S is more readily than Citgo A.C..
Yes, it is exactly the same. Check out Citgos website. The msds and physical properties on the prduct data sheets are identical.
Locoweed
ArboristSite Guru
Here are the rings in my 10 year old Echo cs-330evl that I have probably cut 30-40 cords of wood with.
Not a lot, but it is just a 33.4 cc saw.
Not a lot, but it is just a 33.4 cc saw.
Last edited:
Penziol
I used penzoil 2-cycle air-cooled oil (TCWIII) at 32: w/ Sunoco 91 octane, and it gave me a real nice burn (not too hot and clean clean clean) with a Makita 540. No carbon in the system anywhere (maybe a little with the drip at the bottom of the muffler screen -- but the pistons and rings, and cylinder walls were shiny metal like new, new, new). The spark plug was just right - nice warm brown, not too dry-not too wet, just right.
This morning, for the first itme I tried about 3/4 tank of Stihl High Performance (orange container) oil at 40:1 with Shell 93 octane (unlike Sunoco, Shell offers 89 or 93 - Makita recommends 91 - and I'm not venturing into alcohol/other-? additive domains of lower octanes - they will definitely seize you up ). at 3/4 tank, the thing seized up on me while limbing (a lot of acceleration pulls). So I pulled the muffler and plug. The plug showed significant increase in heat, brown-white with a dry look/feel to it I didn't like it ( ... back track, when I first started up with the new gas/oil, I immediately noticed that the burble wasn't the way I like it out of the cut. I opened up the main jet, and turned down the acceleration a little, since it was coughing on acceleration. That was weird, since it was unseasonably warm here-60° F, it should have been richer, not leaner. So I figured something was changing.) Then I noticed that the carbon waste in the muffler drippings had this dry quality to them also. Shone a light into the cylinder, and I saw that the top of piston had acquired this light brown hue to it, (with penzoil it was shiney metal, again like new). Same for the cylinder walls.
I remember that when I mixed the Stihl oil (newly purchased), I filled the gas can half way, then poured in the oil, then filled the oil can with a little gas and shook it up good to get it all out, since it looked like there was quite a bit in the little jug. Some of that green-blue dye in the oil, was still sticking to the orange can after trying to rinse it out with gas!!! The additives in Stihl oil obviously have a tendency to separate.
So, doubtless to say, I'm switching back to penzoil at 32:1
I tired pretty hard to find MX2T, but had no luck anywhere. Mobil 1 website says Advance Auto carries it, but their employees could not find an SKU for it (there are 3 separate "Motorcycle" oils made by Mobil 1 - the MX2T is the "2-cycle Dirt Bike" oil. I gather it comes in pints.) Anybody have the SKU for the Mobil-1 MX2T (If you can, be sure to read all the numbers, including little ones at the beginning and at the end.)
I used penzoil 2-cycle air-cooled oil (TCWIII) at 32: w/ Sunoco 91 octane, and it gave me a real nice burn (not too hot and clean clean clean) with a Makita 540. No carbon in the system anywhere (maybe a little with the drip at the bottom of the muffler screen -- but the pistons and rings, and cylinder walls were shiny metal like new, new, new). The spark plug was just right - nice warm brown, not too dry-not too wet, just right.
This morning, for the first itme I tried about 3/4 tank of Stihl High Performance (orange container) oil at 40:1 with Shell 93 octane (unlike Sunoco, Shell offers 89 or 93 - Makita recommends 91 - and I'm not venturing into alcohol/other-? additive domains of lower octanes - they will definitely seize you up ). at 3/4 tank, the thing seized up on me while limbing (a lot of acceleration pulls). So I pulled the muffler and plug. The plug showed significant increase in heat, brown-white with a dry look/feel to it I didn't like it ( ... back track, when I first started up with the new gas/oil, I immediately noticed that the burble wasn't the way I like it out of the cut. I opened up the main jet, and turned down the acceleration a little, since it was coughing on acceleration. That was weird, since it was unseasonably warm here-60° F, it should have been richer, not leaner. So I figured something was changing.) Then I noticed that the carbon waste in the muffler drippings had this dry quality to them also. Shone a light into the cylinder, and I saw that the top of piston had acquired this light brown hue to it, (with penzoil it was shiney metal, again like new). Same for the cylinder walls.
I remember that when I mixed the Stihl oil (newly purchased), I filled the gas can half way, then poured in the oil, then filled the oil can with a little gas and shook it up good to get it all out, since it looked like there was quite a bit in the little jug. Some of that green-blue dye in the oil, was still sticking to the orange can after trying to rinse it out with gas!!! The additives in Stihl oil obviously have a tendency to separate.
So, doubtless to say, I'm switching back to penzoil at 32:1
I tired pretty hard to find MX2T, but had no luck anywhere. Mobil 1 website says Advance Auto carries it, but their employees could not find an SKU for it (there are 3 separate "Motorcycle" oils made by Mobil 1 - the MX2T is the "2-cycle Dirt Bike" oil. I gather it comes in pints.) Anybody have the SKU for the Mobil-1 MX2T (If you can, be sure to read all the numbers, including little ones at the beginning and at the end.)
The Mobil oil is on the rack at Autozone, but it's not with the 2-stroke oils. It's on the rack with the automotive synthetics. Something like 3-1/2 bucks for a pint. I run it at 40:1.
It's hard to say whether the change in fuel wasn't the largest factor for you.
Glen
It's hard to say whether the change in fuel wasn't the largest factor for you.
Glen
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Mobil-1 MX2T SKU
thanks glens ... a "nearby" AutoZone had it!
The SKU is : "0-71924-44926-8"
I then took the SKU to Advance Auto, and asked the employee to scan it. The scanner took the number. Then the employee said ... "Oh, yea ... I think we keep that in the back ..." And sure enough, they had it, on a separate "Motorcycle Shelf" in the stock room area.
I'm looking forward to trying it, because it is colorless. I suspect that the Stihl and other oils have some teflon in them -- and I'm not big on teflon additives, no matter what the big boys say. The "other" oils definately have some kind of dye or particles in them, because you can see it in the bottom of the jugs.
BTW, as a measuring cup, the little one gallon Stihl jugs, being labeled 2.6oz at about 1" down from the neck (for 50:1), are exactly 4oz when filled up to the "neck," e.g. to the bottom of the threads for the cap. That is to say that the little Stihl jug, filled to 1/4" from the brim, measures exactly 4 oz, and will serve as a handy measure for a one gallon 32:1 mixture of the Mobil-1.
$3.49 a pint, does 4 gallons at 32:1. or $0.87 per gallon, so the price is about the same ....
thanks glens ... a "nearby" AutoZone had it!
The SKU is : "0-71924-44926-8"
I then took the SKU to Advance Auto, and asked the employee to scan it. The scanner took the number. Then the employee said ... "Oh, yea ... I think we keep that in the back ..." And sure enough, they had it, on a separate "Motorcycle Shelf" in the stock room area.
I'm looking forward to trying it, because it is colorless. I suspect that the Stihl and other oils have some teflon in them -- and I'm not big on teflon additives, no matter what the big boys say. The "other" oils definately have some kind of dye or particles in them, because you can see it in the bottom of the jugs.
BTW, as a measuring cup, the little one gallon Stihl jugs, being labeled 2.6oz at about 1" down from the neck (for 50:1), are exactly 4oz when filled up to the "neck," e.g. to the bottom of the threads for the cap. That is to say that the little Stihl jug, filled to 1/4" from the brim, measures exactly 4 oz, and will serve as a handy measure for a one gallon 32:1 mixture of the Mobil-1.
$3.49 a pint, does 4 gallons at 32:1. or $0.87 per gallon, so the price is about the same ....
No two cycle oils that I am aware of contain teflon.
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glens said:
For the little additional cost go with 32:1. Many members have done this. There may be no additional benefit over 40:1 but why not go 32:1?
Stumper
One Man Band
Rich, I concur. Maybe 40 to one is completely adequate. (In theory 50/1 should be but lots of us wonder if that is more about emissions than proper saw lubrication.)32/1 doesn't smoke noticeably and the mix oil is not a large expense. After so many years of 32/1 I'm disinclined to change-I run it in old equip that specifies 16/1 or 20/1 and I run it in saws that specify 50/1. It always works.
Got this recently off another forum - note the oil name change.
In MX-2T (name soon to be changed to "Racing 2 cycle") we have an unusual lubricant, kind of a windfall. It was originally developed for the 2 cycle Formula bikes for European Grand Prix racing.. It was an all out, cost no object formulation, developed by the European group.
U.S. group bought it over "as is" and as a result, we have one superb 2 cycle high performance oil.. Base stock, additive package, but moreover, performance.. Clean, clean, clean... Plus super film strength from the trick base oil used..
Superb oil and NOT a price watch item... We inherited a for real race oil with lineage....
George Morrison, STLE CLS ExxonMobil Lubrication Engineer
Ray
In MX-2T (name soon to be changed to "Racing 2 cycle") we have an unusual lubricant, kind of a windfall. It was originally developed for the 2 cycle Formula bikes for European Grand Prix racing.. It was an all out, cost no object formulation, developed by the European group.
U.S. group bought it over "as is" and as a result, we have one superb 2 cycle high performance oil.. Base stock, additive package, but moreover, performance.. Clean, clean, clean... Plus super film strength from the trick base oil used..
Superb oil and NOT a price watch item... We inherited a for real race oil with lineage....
George Morrison, STLE CLS ExxonMobil Lubrication Engineer
Ray
