2 Cycle Oil
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Good question. If you where useing a high quality mix like husky's,shindaiwas or others I would run it at 50:1. Actually I would rather run a bit more oil, but thats another kettle of fish
Newfie
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hi sawfish,
Welcome to the forum. Why not avoid the whole mess and use the stihl oil? Sure, the proprietary brands are more expensive than the walmart special but how much extra money are we really talking about in the end?
By the way, turn off your caps lock, under the posting guidelines you will notice that all caps is "YELLING" here at the forum.
Welcome to the forum. Why not avoid the whole mess and use the stihl oil? Sure, the proprietary brands are more expensive than the walmart special but how much extra money are we really talking about in the end?
By the way, turn off your caps lock, under the posting guidelines you will notice that all caps is "YELLING" here at the forum.
Dennis
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Welcome to our world Sawfish... there has been alot of debate on this subject in prior threads...try doing a search of mix oils, and you will prolly find enough reading to last you a lifetime...lol...
It's not the cost that i'm worried about(since a 8oz. bottle is only $1). It's just that I have just recently bought a ms460 and I don't want to screw anything up.
I have other oil from my other saw's that I would like to use up but I do not want to damage my saw in the process.
Is the "stihl" oil really that much better than the stuff of the store shelf?
Should I be running it with a little bit more oil than 50:1? and if so how much?
Thanks "newfie" for the caps lock tip.
I have other oil from my other saw's that I would like to use up but I do not want to damage my saw in the process.
Is the "stihl" oil really that much better than the stuff of the store shelf?
Should I be running it with a little bit more oil than 50:1? and if so how much?
Thanks "newfie" for the caps lock tip.
eyolf
Addicted to ArboristSite
I wouldn't worry using any oil labelled the same as the stihl oil...that is "ISO L-EGD" and "JASO FC". Read the following page:
http://www.goa-northcoastoil.com/tips/2cycleol.html
for an interesting essay (buried in a bunch of advertizing on 2-stroke oils).
The problem that Stihl and all the others face is that they have no control over what is used, unless they package it. You and I know, of course, that Tanaka and Echo, Husqvarna and even lawn boy all repackage oils that are probably really good, but you can't expect Stihl to send you down the street to somebody else, LOL.
Use any brand you want, as long as it meets the spec's.
Good luck to ya...
http://www.goa-northcoastoil.com/tips/2cycleol.html
for an interesting essay (buried in a bunch of advertizing on 2-stroke oils).
The problem that Stihl and all the others face is that they have no control over what is used, unless they package it. You and I know, of course, that Tanaka and Echo, Husqvarna and even lawn boy all repackage oils that are probably really good, but you can't expect Stihl to send you down the street to somebody else, LOL.
Use any brand you want, as long as it meets the spec's.
Good luck to ya...
tony marks
Addicted to ArboristSite
thats true . all those eyewolf mentioned wilkl do fine.
Sawfish...you will find in ALL major saw manufacturers owners manuals and printed lit that same recommendation.
The reason is that the whole world is a saw market..with undeveloped countries a suprisingly large part of that market..in those areas there is no oil distribution network like we have here, and generally motor oil is all thats available.
The lubrication quality of any oil is dependant on the "bright stock" content.
Motor oil has much less in it and the saw manufacturers have come up with that generality..the 25 to 1 deal so as to try and accomidate any area on the globe. Unfortunately, it causes alot of confusion and many fellas think their saw will run better on 25 to one 2 cycle mix also...IT WONT...believe me.
The above advice you have recieved on any major brand name 2 cycle mix at 50 :1 is correct .
When you dont have 2 cycle mix available..and you want to use motor oil at 25 to 1...you can..but you will seriously shorten the life of that fine new saw you have!
The reason is that the whole world is a saw market..with undeveloped countries a suprisingly large part of that market..in those areas there is no oil distribution network like we have here, and generally motor oil is all thats available.
The lubrication quality of any oil is dependant on the "bright stock" content.
Motor oil has much less in it and the saw manufacturers have come up with that generality..the 25 to 1 deal so as to try and accomidate any area on the globe. Unfortunately, it causes alot of confusion and many fellas think their saw will run better on 25 to one 2 cycle mix also...IT WONT...believe me.
The above advice you have recieved on any major brand name 2 cycle mix at 50 :1 is correct .
When you dont have 2 cycle mix available..and you want to use motor oil at 25 to 1...you can..but you will seriously shorten the life of that fine new saw you have!
sedanman
Just cut the piano!!
There is a marketing angle going on here too. The saw manufacturer wants you to use their oil so you'll have to go to the saw shop to get it. If you don't use their oil and follow the twice as much if other brands rule the the saw will smoke and foul plugs, so you bring it in for service (back to the saw shop they were trying to get you into in the first place. The saw tech asks what oil you've been using, you tell him and he says "that junk is why you had to bring the saw in for service, why don't you just use OUR oil?"
oil
Now I only tell them that as I am chiselling the rings out of the piston.
Seriously, make sure it says for air cooled 2 cycle, and will mix at least 50 to 1. Should be OK.
PS NO MILK JUGS! Thank you.
Now I only tell them that as I am chiselling the rings out of the piston.
Seriously, make sure it says for air cooled 2 cycle, and will mix at least 50 to 1. Should be OK.
PS NO MILK JUGS! Thank you.
eyolf
Addicted to ArboristSite
Milk Jugs
I just gotta ask...
what's the deal with milk jugs? Think about it...most plastic milk jugs come in two forms, the returnable ones with about a 2mm wall thickness, and the "recyclable" ones, about 0.15-0.3 wall; both are made of polyethylene, although the returnables have a somewhat heavier molecular weight due to the metal crosslinking polymers.
Now, the average red plastic gas can is made of PE as well, as is the quart oil bottle, and the gallon anti-freeze jug. All of them outgas plasicizers and some dyes, and all are permeable to shorter hydrocarbon molecules. Of course, the thinner, lower-quality milk jug is going to be much more permeable, and since the regrind (recycled plastics) content is variable, it is possible that some unfriendly molecules could be contained in them. But, for moldability, the regrind content is often held below about 7%, and given the costs involved in cleaning, handling and blending, regrind is not usually present in most packaging.
So what is the mechanism for gas from milk jugs burning saws down, and will I have to go back to a steel gas can?
I just gotta ask...
what's the deal with milk jugs? Think about it...most plastic milk jugs come in two forms, the returnable ones with about a 2mm wall thickness, and the "recyclable" ones, about 0.15-0.3 wall; both are made of polyethylene, although the returnables have a somewhat heavier molecular weight due to the metal crosslinking polymers.
Now, the average red plastic gas can is made of PE as well, as is the quart oil bottle, and the gallon anti-freeze jug. All of them outgas plasicizers and some dyes, and all are permeable to shorter hydrocarbon molecules. Of course, the thinner, lower-quality milk jug is going to be much more permeable, and since the regrind (recycled plastics) content is variable, it is possible that some unfriendly molecules could be contained in them. But, for moldability, the regrind content is often held below about 7%, and given the costs involved in cleaning, handling and blending, regrind is not usually present in most packaging.
So what is the mechanism for gas from milk jugs burning saws down, and will I have to go back to a steel gas can?
I dont know about plastic milk jugs causing a saw to burn down, but it is much better to use steel cans. The fuel stays fresh longer in steel cans because the low end boiling point componets of the fuel can not evaporate and penetrate through them as they can with plastic. BTW OEM oils are fairly priced and work good IMO. Why not just use them and not worry about the fitness of certain oils for the intended application. That being said, as some one mentioned above any ISO-L-E-GD oil will perform great in our saws. It is the worlds toughest standard for aircooled two cycles and was constucted with input from Electrolux and Stihl.
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I dont know about plastic milk jugs causing a saw to burn down, but it is much better to use steel cans. The fuel stays fresh longer in steel cans because the low end boiling point componenets of the fuel can not eveporate and penetrate through them as they can with plastic. BTW OEM oils are fairly priced and the work good IMO. Why not just use them and not worry about the fitness of certain oils for the intended application. However, as some one mentioned above any ISO-L-E-GD oil will perform great in our saws. It is the worlds toughest standard for aircooled two cycles and was constucted with input from Electrolux and Stihl.
Fish
Tree Freak
WHY WOULD YOU ALL HAVE A PROBLEM WITH FISH, JUGS, LlAMAS,
OR ALPACAS?
i KNOW STIHLTECH HAS A PROBLEM WITH JUGS IN GENERAL,
BUT HE NEEDS HELP.
OR ALPACAS?
i KNOW STIHLTECH HAS A PROBLEM WITH JUGS IN GENERAL,
BUT HE NEEDS HELP.
milk jugs
All jugs are not created equal, milk, that is. I had a few gentleman that refused to buy a 1 gallon gas can and used a milk jug. Each brought the saw or trimmer in set up. After remving the cylinder with a big screwdriver, I found the rings glued in the piston grooves and a brown shiney substance all over the piston. I replaced the piston and rings.
In about a week the same gentleman returned with the same problem. I had sold him Stihl oil the week before. Both times the fuel smelled like it was 2 years old. He finally said he was using a milk jug to store his fuel. In all cases, no more milk jug, no more problem.
As a further check , I heated the old piston to remove the rings. The brown substance liquified and then hardened into plastic.
No milk jugs here, sell em a FUEL can.
All jugs are not created equal, milk, that is. I had a few gentleman that refused to buy a 1 gallon gas can and used a milk jug. Each brought the saw or trimmer in set up. After remving the cylinder with a big screwdriver, I found the rings glued in the piston grooves and a brown shiney substance all over the piston. I replaced the piston and rings.
In about a week the same gentleman returned with the same problem. I had sold him Stihl oil the week before. Both times the fuel smelled like it was 2 years old. He finally said he was using a milk jug to store his fuel. In all cases, no more milk jug, no more problem.
As a further check , I heated the old piston to remove the rings. The brown substance liquified and then hardened into plastic.
No milk jugs here, sell em a FUEL can.
Stumper
One Man Band
Query, How does one tell if the oil they are buying meets ISO-LE-GD or any other standard? The only oil I have seen labeled with ISO specs is Echo(which is not available locally) The Stihl oil I buy locally is not marked with an Iso specification. Everybody's 2-cycle oil is labeled "For all air-cooled 2-cycle engines" Great! It'll work but......what standards does it meet? The interesting thing is that if Poulan's and True-value's and Wal-mart's oil were really poor quality that labeling would presumably cost them a fortune in damaged engines. If the engine craters while under warranty the manufacturer would love to pass the buck.Right? I do note that most of the cheaper oils say that they are suitable at mix ratios up to 50/1 but the 'individual serving 'bottles make 40/1 mix when added to 1 gallon.-----Daggers "bright stock" percentage?
This subject fascinates me becauseit is so muddled and unclear. I have used any brand of 2-cycle oil mixed at ratios of 32/1 --40/1 for many years without problems. Since learning that there are actually different 'grades' of 2-cycle oil I want to use the best. BUT... which oils are best and what ratio?
This subject fascinates me becauseit is so muddled and unclear. I have used any brand of 2-cycle oil mixed at ratios of 32/1 --40/1 for many years without problems. Since learning that there are actually different 'grades' of 2-cycle oil I want to use the best. BUT... which oils are best and what ratio?
bwiesner
ArboristSite Lurker
Stihltech:
You are so right I had the same problem about 12 years ago with a saw and a trimmer, and have run into several since. We had one guy bring his trimmer into the shop this way and you should have seen the look on his face when I told him he needed to stop using a milk jug to mix his fuel in. The fuel will dissolve the plastic and when it gets into the combustion chamber it melts and all is ok until it cools and then it solitifies and sticks the rings. That along with the combustion gasses and carbon really messes things up. Later Butch
You are so right I had the same problem about 12 years ago with a saw and a trimmer, and have run into several since. We had one guy bring his trimmer into the shop this way and you should have seen the look on his face when I told him he needed to stop using a milk jug to mix his fuel in. The fuel will dissolve the plastic and when it gets into the combustion chamber it melts and all is ok until it cools and then it solitifies and sticks the rings. That along with the combustion gasses and carbon really messes things up. Later Butch
milkjug
Can you say that still saws run at such a low tempeture that they don't blow the plastic out the exhaust? Back in the 70's I used Yahama synthetic (purple)at 90 to 1 or 120 to 1 but then I was racing high preformance motorcycles with air cooled two cycle engines that turned 20,000 RPM and up so I used it in my chainsaws too at 90 to 1 with no problems.
The old motor oil was mixxed at 16 to 1 if you didn't have two cycle mix. Read your old motor boat engine manuals (16 to 1),not 25 to 1. Air cooled two cycle motor boat engines. Two cycle lawn mowers were 16 to 1. They all will burn the new two cycle oil at 50 to 1 mix or the synthetic at 90 to1 mix. I'm getting old.
I'd have to ask one of the engineers at Bayer Corp if it is possible to run a two cycle cold enough not to burn the plastic out of the cylinder. If it is possible you'll have sthil making plastic cylinders next to lighten up their saws.
Never had that problem with my weed eaters, poulans, mac's, husky's or lawnboy or boat. Is it particular to saws sitting still or sthil saws???
Can you say that still saws run at such a low tempeture that they don't blow the plastic out the exhaust? Back in the 70's I used Yahama synthetic (purple)at 90 to 1 or 120 to 1 but then I was racing high preformance motorcycles with air cooled two cycle engines that turned 20,000 RPM and up so I used it in my chainsaws too at 90 to 1 with no problems.
The old motor oil was mixxed at 16 to 1 if you didn't have two cycle mix. Read your old motor boat engine manuals (16 to 1),not 25 to 1. Air cooled two cycle motor boat engines. Two cycle lawn mowers were 16 to 1. They all will burn the new two cycle oil at 50 to 1 mix or the synthetic at 90 to1 mix. I'm getting old.
I'd have to ask one of the engineers at Bayer Corp if it is possible to run a two cycle cold enough not to burn the plastic out of the cylinder. If it is possible you'll have sthil making plastic cylinders next to lighten up their saws.
Never had that problem with my weed eaters, poulans, mac's, husky's or lawnboy or boat. Is it particular to saws sitting still or sthil saws???
milkjugs
Oh it is definitly the milk jug. There is something wrong with a saw that will not burn off contaminated fuel? When a saw ishopped up, the first thing they tell you is that it runs cooler. Not a bad thing. Get rid of the milk jug. You spent a few hundred on the machine, spend a few buck on a fuel can.
Oh it is definitly the milk jug. There is something wrong with a saw that will not burn off contaminated fuel? When a saw ishopped up, the first thing they tell you is that it runs cooler. Not a bad thing. Get rid of the milk jug. You spent a few hundred on the machine, spend a few buck on a fuel can.
Thanks to all for your input it has helped out much!
But I got one that you may not believe, My brother has a older McCulloch that runs on straight gas, No oil at all except for the bar oil. I did not beleive this until I saw it for myself. He started out with a empty tank and I supplied the straight gas, No mix.
I ran the saw for about 10 min. cutting misc. things, Shut it off refueled and it started right back up. And to this day it still runs.
So why even bother with the oil? I don't think I'll try that with my saw, I'll stick to the mix.
To all thanks again for your help
SawFish
But I got one that you may not believe, My brother has a older McCulloch that runs on straight gas, No oil at all except for the bar oil. I did not beleive this until I saw it for myself. He started out with a empty tank and I supplied the straight gas, No mix.
I ran the saw for about 10 min. cutting misc. things, Shut it off refueled and it started right back up. And to this day it still runs.
So why even bother with the oil? I don't think I'll try that with my saw, I'll stick to the mix.
To all thanks again for your help
SawFish
