2 Ways to give Arboriculture a Black Eye

[tree MDS]

Thanks for that vid MD

".....practically beg the local Grizzly population to deficate on us", lol.

 

[Brush Hog]

One side seems to argue for illegality in the same way someone might argue for legalizing prostitution.

Now we're talkin'

 

[treevet]

Our county's government was founded in the climate of breaking unjust laws.

You say not to climb these trees just because it is against the law.

Laws were made to be broken (or at least changed).

I sit on my town's Urban Forestry Board. I am the only one of 7 that knows anything about trees and their care. But this does not stop them from legislating. The main thing in their minds is that they just "love those trees" even tho they haven't cared enough to crack a book in their honor.

 

[Ekka]

Prostitution is legal here, thought it was in most places, cant believe people still argue about it.

 

[Nailsbeats]

In some micro-ecosystems entry alone can cause damage. Often times they are prone to compaction, or rope setting can disturb canopy environments.

Most rec climbers are "hey, big tree, let's climb it" mosses and such get disturbed at best.

There should be areas where no one should go. Where only knowledgeable people should enter for management of invasives and system health assessment. I'm of the same mind about ATV's, bikes and even hiking in some areas.

I could not disagree more. People, just like animals should be allowed to walk any wilderness they choose. Coons, Bears, Porkupines, etc... do whatever they want all the time, often wounding and killing trees. To worry about a human compacting the soil or rubbing some moss off a tree is missing the big picture.

 

[treeseer]

So how big are these Heritage sites anyway? If reasonably small, respect the efforts of scientists and stf out. If a group has done the work to document a site and set up research, understand that these are the guys who advance our knowledge base about trees and hence our whole industry.

Makes sense to respect that. I've seen redwoods in Yosemite fenced off to limit compaction, and wondered what % of the rootzone they protected. Seems silly in a way but the idea is good so why not respect it.

I'm all for civil disobedience when the cause is just. "I wanna climb this protected tree instead of these other 10,000 unprotected trees" seems adolescent. :welcome:

 

[M.D. Vaden]

I could not disagree more. People, just like animals should be allowed to walk any wilderness they choose. Coons, Bears, Porkupines, etc... do whatever they want all the time, often wounding and killing trees. To worry about a human compacting the soil or rubbing some moss off a tree is missing the big picture.

Cool ...

What's your address - we'll start with that one, as we choose.

Since animals go into other animal homes, and take other animal stuff.

 

[fishercat]

i have to disagree.

what gives us a black eye here is a guy(company) bidding jobs while touting all the credentials and insurance,then getting the job,not being on it but releasing all his drunk and stoned, incompetent workers loose on the unsuspectiong client(s) who thought they hired professionals.

 

[treevet]

So how big are these Heritage sites anyway? If reasonably small, respect the efforts of scientists and stf out. If a group has done the work to document a site and set up research, understand that these are the guys who advance our knowledge base about trees and hence our whole industry.

Makes sense to respect that. I've seen redwoods in Yosemite fenced off to limit compaction, and wondered what % of the rootzone they protected. Seems silly in a way but the idea is good so why not respect it.

I'm all for civil disobedience when the cause is just. "I wanna climb this protected tree instead of these other 10,000 unprotected trees" seems adolescent. :welcome:

I can see staying off of a research site but not to be able to climb a tree just because it is old.....that sucks. If it were legal and the quality of the climb/climber was screened then more than likely beneficial things would occur by high level arbs contributing observations and offering solutions to maladies
( compaction would be easy to correct or control).

Maybe you see this as adolescent bcs you are just plain too old to climb anymore Guy? oke: and Vaden.....he's always been an armchair arb.

 

[treeseer]

.... just plain too old to climb anymore Guy? oke:

Hahahaha you crack me up Dave. Still climb regularly, thanks...just a little more slowly. :monkey:

It's the break-in, illegal, ninja aspect that seems unprofessional, so Mario may have a point....beyond being jealous that he can't get the money shots (which are aerial, of course) oke:

 

[treevet]

Me too, but I like to use the term "carefully" as I think loss of speed is made up for by experience in technique and pre engineering the climb/tasks.

As for the "ninja" aspect....wouldn't be the case if it wasn't illegal but a "ninja climb" has gotta be a little more fun than a regular old climb.:biggrinbounce2: :rockn: :biggrinbounce2:

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

To worry about a human compacting the soil or rubbing some moss off a tree is missing the big picture.

I think this view misses the bigger picture. Conservation of commonly held property for generations, not just for us, now.

I want to go see it, so i should be able to drive my 4x4 in there.

Pretty orchid, or cactus I should be able to pick it and take it home.

Or even more simple and straight forward, why should everybody passing by the city park in the spring not be able to pick a daffodil or tulip? At least first come first serve til they are all gone.

If it were legal and the quality of the climb/climber was screened then more than likely beneficial things would occur by high level arbs contributing observations and offering solutions to maladies

Too many cooks in the kitchen, and how many good climbers do you know who are not qualified to give an opinion on PHC?

There are some areas that should remain stay on the marked trail, or go to jail. (yes that was hyperboli, a stiff fine would be good)

I just object to hypocrits on high horses lecturing on disturbing the moss on a tree when he used to punch holes in the tree itself to treat it "professionally".

once again, there is a difference between a tree in a NatPark and a residential setting. I've been in a couple big redwoods, and I've done a little rec climbing. I'm not saying do not do it, I'm saying that there are places we should not go.

To pick my statement about moss shows an ignorance about ecosystems, it is more then moss. It is more then the one climber going into the tree, it is the succession of people over time doing so.

For that matter, when the professional climber going into a forest tree on a rec climb, he is no longer acting as a professional. Especially if it is a nogo area.

Our county's government was founded in the climate of breaking unjust laws.

You say not to climb these trees just because it is against the law.

Laws were made to be broken (or at least changed).

This is not civil disobedience we are talking about here. It is like the cracker "survivalist" driving on the roads without a license because he feels he is not bound by the laws of the land.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

After reading "The Wild Trees," I wrote the author a nasty letter. It thoroughly po'd me that this group of Ninja climbers (covered in the book), once they became older and became "The Establishment," took so many steps to make sure that no other climbers could climb "their trees," citing the usual environmental sensitivity issues.

Look, if research is going on in a tree, post a :censored: ing sign at its base and let others know not to climb it, for now. I really, really hate the elitist bs that the guys in the book, as above, got into once they got their degrees, published some articles and gave some lectures, complete with TV appearances. Now they try to tell us all what we should or should not do. That's garbage! They climbed, and continue to climb, the giants in the forests. Of course they now make money selling their "view from the top" posters and such, but that is no reason to keep us from climbing those trees that are not being actively researched with canopy-placed monitors and tests.

My degree is in Biology, with heavy Ecology work. I know about microclimates and yes, you may effect the same when you climb a huge tree. The thing is, if you are not climbing it over and over again, the tree will get on with its business, over time, and life will go on. The odds of climbers seeking out the same tree are lessened simply by the fact that there are so many trees to climb. If a given tree is attracting groups to the extent that wear and tear issues come into play, then, and only then, should climbing restrictions be placed on it.

To try and stop people from climbing trees just because they have been around for centuries and may suffer some minor damage by improper rope placement, broken minor branches, etc., seems absurd. These trees have weathered, literally, the ravages of time and a few puny humans are not going to cause them to fall over at the drop of a hat, repeated climbing by group after group notwithstanding.

To make it clear: I am not saying that everyone should do just as they please, without any restrictions. Rather, by monitoring those trees that are being climbed, a given oversight body can take measures to make sure that the trees being climbed do not go into decline because of those activities. Certain trees should be off-limits if they are too stressed, but most trees will be just fine with a certain amount of climbing. In fact, if climbers pay fees for climbing, then everyone makes out better if those fees go back to the trees.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

After reading "The Wild Trees," I wrote the author a nasty letter. It thoroughly po'd me that this group of Ninja climbers (covered in the book), once they became older and became "The Establishment," took so many steps to make sure that no other climbers could climb "their trees," citing the usual environmental sensitivity issues.

It's pretty cool that you sent Preston a letter. Now .. I don't agree with your particulalar reason. But I thought he could use a few words for some other stuff in the book. I still like the story, but there are certain things he wrote, and certain ways he decribed them, that seem worth a few words.

SUNRISE GUY ...

Did you read my Climbing Wear & Tear to Redwoods page?

> http://www.mdvaden.com/redwood_climbing.shtml

Sounds like you might like the end of the page. There are some suggestions for ideas on how recreational climbers could get into the old growth more often. Not sure if the page might make Sillett want to pull some hair out, but the first version was only about researchers in the redwoods. Kind of a Wild Card subject. And the more I thought about it, the more I thought that Recreational Climbers should be added.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Cool ...

What's your address - we'll start with that one, as we choose.

Since animals go into other animal homes, and take other animal stuff.

Why don't you come on over, we'll go for a long walk.

 

[(WLL)]

Why don't you come on over, we'll go for a long walk.

lmao there's a couple blk eyes fer ya M.D.oke: yer an animal Nails!!!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Certain trees should be off-limits if they are too stressed, but most trees will be just fine with a certain amount of climbing.

That is pretty much what i am saying, if the area is restricted to foot traffic then no one should be allowed to enter.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Why don't you come on over, we'll go for a long walk.

Your reply seems to contradict your ealier statement that people can go and do as they wish.

lmao there's a couple blk eyes fer ya M.D.oke: yer an animal Nails!!!

I don't know ...

When I was just 16 years, these big football players - a Hawaiian and Samoan - from PSU football team ganged up on me simultaneously. Anyway, The Samoan vacated immediately after hearing screams from other guy. In months following, we got along pretty darned good. They were co-workers.

I don't believe in fighting. Fights are foolish. Defending is much more honest.

So your statement seems highly impractical - LOL

 

[Blakesmaster]

Your reply seems to contradict your ealier statement that people can go and do as they wish.



I don't know ...

When I was just 16 years old, these two big football players - a Hawaiian and a Samoan - from Portand State University football team ganged up on me simultaneously. And I consider myself a weakling back then compared to now. Anyway, The Samoan walked away pretty quickly after the injuries occured to the other guy. In months following, we all seemed to get along pretty darned good.

So your statement is equally as ignorant as it is foolish.

I'm glad we can all get together and have these nice chats.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

I'm glad we can all get together and have these nice chats.

Seems some of the best, are the ones we can get together with.

Last time was beer and Fish & Chips