2 Ways to give Arboriculture a Black Eye

[treevet]

Good idea Guy.... ....

Imagine going on his (Vaden's) pseudo intellectual forum and giving this kind of attitude?

....or...this being the "Commercial Tree Care and Climbing" thread and him being afraid to climb....imagine..

going on his landscaping forum (as an arborist) and telling those hole diggers they are all full of $heat and they shouldn't be allowed to plant for lack of expertise, disrupting the flow of the thread and insulting posters and (in my case) making condescending and offensive remarks and when a return post is made, quickly editing your post to hide what you said?

Speaking of Wikipedia...

TROLL: Someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off topic messages in an on-line community, such as a forum, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response, or to generally disrupt.....

 

[M.D. Vaden]

But a lot of arborists--defined as professionals who can manage trees--don't climb. They don't have to--lots of tree work does not involve a saw.

If you think climbing is what makes an arborist an arborist, then I would not hire you to work on my trees.

The point is, if researchers got to a tree first and are gathering data for research that YOU and the rest of the industry will benefit from, then maybe you can find another tree to climb. There were plenty of big redwoods out there last I saw (last Nov).

Good suggestion.

That's where the tree climbers page was headed, listed earlier.



Have no idea what Treevet is even talking about.

I don't have any forum.

Maybe he can figure out which other person posting is a forum owner and moderator ...



Now Ekka wrote something pretty much unrelated, but here's a thought.

Eric - aka Ekka - just replied something pertaining to his competiing tree forum LINK being removed from Wikipedia.

He did not point out that ommissions or inclusions of links on the Wikipedia arborist page, was posted under it's own sub-heading in the DISCUSSION page. The links changes were thrown into the arena of suggestions for any contributor at Wikipedia to discuss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arborist

Siince NO other editor / contributor wrote any other suggestion or objection, some links were culled. As you see, anybody had the opportunity to speak their mind.

In fact, it's been over 3 MONTHS for which feedback could have been added, and yet no objections to the suggested edit.

That discusstion page might be something Treevet is interested in reviewing, in light of his last post.

 

[capetrees]

And still the non-response to the question persists.

Do you climb or not, jackwad?

BTW, be sure to tell me if I have spelled that correctly. Picture, links, IMG, JPEG. Point is once again, you like to use other peoples work to further your own crusade. Just keep this in mind yardape, "green side up".

 

[Slvrmple72]

When I started "tree work" I was a ladder climbing, limb topping idiot, butchering away, and gladly doing work for dirt cheap. Insurance? Proper cutting and pruning? Ha Ha Ha! I am ashamed of a lot of my so-called treework I did when I first started out. I have always jumped feet first into things often learning the hard way. Arrogant and stubbornly proud of our own pompous assurance in our abilities sums up a lot of us, heck pretty much sums up the human race. I guess the question each and everyone of us has to ask is "What am I doing through work,education, and even recreation to promote the beneficial symbiotic relationship with trees in the community I live in." I agree with M.D. on both points, I also agree with a lot of you that have brought up good points about the balance that needs to be struck between recreational /scientific use and preservation. We already know the most destructive species on earth is rampantly stripping the planet of resources and overbreeding at an alarming rate so this whole thread could be moot.

Kinda like the idea that I can take my son to see those big trees out west, even climb one, and someday he could take his son/daughter to do the same thing. From his posts, Mr. Vaden, and others like him give me the impression that he cares for the trees in his community even if he doesn't climb.


http://www.savetheredwoods.org/index.shtml

http://www.arborday.org/Shopping/Donations/OrderGeneral.cfm

 

[capetrees]

Problem is that Vaden is claiming the vagrant climbers are damaging the trees and canopies and really HE has no dead on proof, just conjecture and baseless claim. If he were a climber, maybe he would know exactly what it is that he's fearful is happening when really it most likely isn't. He's seems to be part of a bigger group of preservationists that want the trees for only THEM to climb. Fact is, these researchers are probably the ones doing the damage without knowing, yet blaming others. Been there, been accused of that. Matter of fact, just two weeks ago and then two weeks prior to that.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Point is once again, you like to use other peoples work to further your own crusade. Just keep this in mind yardape, "green side up".

It sounds like you want to get rid of the LINK & IMG tags on Arborist Site.

Because most links and img tags go to sites and photos of other people - most often.

Had you emailed to the owner of Arborist Site, that you would like to see others not refer to materials of others?

There should be a contact link on the main page.

 

[treevet]

Good idea Guy.... ....

Imagine going on his (Vaden's) pseudo intellectual forum and giving this kind of attitude?

....or...this being the "Commercial Tree Care and Climbing" thread and him being afraid to climb....imagine..

going on his landscaping forum (as an arborist) and telling those hole diggers they are all full of $heat and they shouldn't be allowed to plant for lack of expertise, disrupting the flow of the thread and insulting posters and (in my case) making condescending and offensive remarks and when a return post is made, quickly editing your post to hide what you said?

Speaking of Wikipedia...

TROLL: Someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off topic messages in an on-line community, such as a forum, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response, or to generally disrupt.....

I was just referring to a hypothetical forum (or maybe not) that you might be on instead of this one you don't fit in with.

You say you have been in the biz since 1980....you have not been in our business.

You just don't get it. I have been climbing for 40 years. Not about to do any rec climbing as my efforts have to be all production to pay costs of operating.
I have to ration my energy and time off realistically.

I definitely can relate to the pro/rec climber tho. I will likely lay in my death bed musing about climbs in the largest trees with a pair of sneakers, shorts, no shirt, simple saddle (used to all be legal) floating around in cool breezy weather. It is what we do ...it is what we love.

I remember about 3 years ago a woman comes on here and her husband has lost use of both of his legs and she wants help in getting him one more climb because she knew him....and loved him. Some very caring arbs made it happen. They could relate to him and so could I. You on the other hand couldn't and never will.

 

[lxt]

And still the non-response to the question persists.

Do you climb or not, jackwad?

BTW, be sure to tell me if I have spelled that correctly. Picture, links, IMG, JPEG. Point is once again, you like to use other peoples work to further your own crusade. Just keep this in mind yardape, "green side up".

LMFAO...jackwad..........I like that....someone Rep him!!! dots & Novas, Notice how Jackwad wont reply to me!! ya gotta call him out!!

Cape...I do apologize for the use of "jackwad" please dont remove my IMG tags or other tags that have nothing to do with this thread!!

With Capes permission I say we hereby bust "jackwads" chops & Rep the Hell outta each other for a job well done!! someone 2nd the motion please!!


LXT................Novas all around!!

 

[M.D. Vaden]

I was just referring to a hypothetical forum (or maybe not) that you might be on instead of this one you don't fit in with.

You say you have been in the biz since 1980....you have not been in our business.

You just don't get it. I have been climbing for 40 years.

I think one of Treeseers last replies pretty much corresponds to what you have been writing.

But what he wrote sounds totally different from what you seem to be saying.

 

[masterarbor]

Are unlicensed people more prone to topping butchery?

prolly

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Now here's a comment well worth a second look ...

~
~

...
once again, there is a difference between a tree in a NatPark and a residential setting. I've been in a couple big redwoods, and I've done a little rec climbing. I'm not saying do not do it, I'm saying that there are places we should not go.

To pick my statement about moss shows an ignorance about ecosystems, it is more then moss. It is more then the one climber going into the tree, it is the succession of people over time doing so.

For that matter, when the professional climber going into a forest tree on a rec climb, he is no longer acting as a professional. Especially if it is a nogo area.

This is not civil disobedience we are talking about here. It is like the cracker "survivalist" driving on the roads without a license because he feels he is not bound by the laws of the land.

JPS sets a pretty good example.

One worth considering.

 

[Slvrmple72]

do not cast your pearls before swine?

 

[tree MDS]

Problem is that Vaden is claiming the vagrant climbers are damaging the trees and canopies and really HE has no dead on proof, just conjecture and baseless claim. If he were a climber, maybe he would know exactly what it is that he's fearful is happening when really it most likely isn't. He's seems to be part of a bigger group of preservationists that want the trees for only THEM to climb. Fact is, these researchers are probably the ones doing the damage without knowing, yet blaming others. Been there, been accused of that. Matter of fact, just two weeks ago and then two weeks prior to that.

Hey cape, how long have you been climbing with the saddle now?? what a year or less?? seem more of an internet jockey than climbing authority to me.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

***Padawan Learner***

to steal a line from "Monster House",
"oh my god"
"What?????"
"You're a dork!""

I had to agree, but there are many in the industry. I rolled my eyes a bit, but my calling him out would have been pots&kettles. Though I tend towards Monty Python quotes.

AND NOW ... SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT

Well actually back to our regularly scheduled programing...

Its obvious that the worst black eye to the "industry" is someone with no idea of what they speak of speaking out against it.

I do say that the black eye thing is a bit of hyperbole, but I be we could find more then a few researchers who would have some bad things to say about hikers.

I don't know Mario, but i do think I have a little more then a clue as to what I am talking about.

Here is a juxtaposition of the argument, how about having specific trees designated as climbable? Possible ones in areas where their long term viability is in question, or they are in a depleted ecosystem and do not have the diversity to need restricting.

Then they can have guided climbs where a responsible person is in charge of the climb so no one does anything stupid, like going for a 250ft rap on an eight (ME, got harry after around 150ft)

Look at MV's pictures of the canopy communities. One of us climbing through there is as bad as telling the average highschool kid to go trim a tree.

Soil compaction? Is a 4' wide path really so terrible as to ban people from walking on the forest floor? Better advise the wildlife too, they never use trails upon which the soil is compacted.

If they keep on the path and do not try to climb the trees, but if you go to some of these high traffic areas, you see the wear on the buttresses and compaction all the way around. It does not take much foot traffic to do damage.

Yes, rec climbing could possibly damage micro-ecosystems. So could wind, ice, and wildlife. Taking away the feeling of public ownership could damage the whole ecosystem.

Ice and fire are uncommon events, wildlife is part of the ecosystem so it is adapted to their presence, and often it is an obligate relationship. Like birds moving mistletoe or distributing seeds.

It would not take to many groups a year to cause problems with these small remnant populations. I climbed Devils Tower a number of years back, the Durance is one of the highest trafficked routes in the US, and the hard rock is word so smooth in places that is worn smooth.

But whatever, they make a new tree every day, they grow back,

It takes a 1000year to grow a thousand year old tree. What happens when they are all gone?

 

[lxt]

Look no ones saying throw on the hooks and give her hell, JPS...there will always be places we probably shouldnt go, no doubt! I imagine those that discovered america thought the same thing!

as long as man is alive the natural order of things will never be the same, thus the reason nature adapts & acclimates itself to mans ignorance.....sorry guys thats how it is!!

As far as Mario goes...for those of you coming to his aide/defense: understand we realize who we are dealing with, he goes of topic trying to impress with his BS, if he would stick to the thread topic: 2 ways to give arboriculture a black eye...without trying to make his opinion as a law for all & constant need to re word his opinion into a "im right you`re wrong" fashion things would be fine!

Personally I think Mario Vaden records his own voice and plays it back while pleasuring himself..............now that will give ya a black eye!

LXT............

 

[oldirty]

Hey cape, how long have you been climbing with the saddle now?? what a year or less?? seem more of an internet jockey than climbing authority to me.

awesome.

It takes a 1000year to grow a thousand year old tree. What happens when they are all gone?

i'm all for hugging a tree worth hugging, and these big fellas are worth the squeeze but

what? the tree next to this one a thousand years later wont be there?

cycle of life, no?

i'm not saying go in there and lay waste but if its an ecosystem that is a living thing then you know what? yup. there's gonna be another thousand year old tree some where down the line right next to the one thats either two thousand years old or fallen over from age and creating a nice spot for the next thousand year old tree to grow.

as long as the sun is gonna shine and some water gets mixed in the tree is gonna grow.

climb the mofo if you got the balls.


hey jps. just cause i dont know all the big words in the tree world you gonna ignore every question i ask you? boots in another thread....you to good to answer a fellow tree WORKING man's questions?

 

[jomoco]

I'd like more of you guys to get a helmet cam and post your arboreal exploits like a few of the pros here have shamed me into doing.

Oregon Scientific's cam is less than 200 bucks.

I'm savin for the POV wide angle myself, only 700 bucks, and a consideraby better helmet cam.

jomoco

 

[Nailsbeats]

I'd like more of you guys to get a helmet cam and post your arboreal exploits like a few of the pros here have shamed me into doing.

Oregon Scientific's cam is less than 200 bucks.

I'm savin for the POV wide angle myself, only 700 bucks, and a consideraby better helmet cam.

jomoco

I bet you would, lol. I can't handle the shame, spending so much time on this site is questionable enough, lol.

On a side note, give me some time and I'll get one.

 

[oldirty]

I'd like more of you guys to get a helmet cam and post your arboreal exploits like a few of the pros here have shamed me into doing.

Oregon Scientific's cam is less than 200 bucks.

I'm savin for the POV wide angle myself, only 700 bucks, and a consideraby better helmet cam.

jomoco

its my very next bigtime purchase brother. just because i dont speak the "language" and have all the badges and certs to doesnt mean i cant dance. gotta show that i aint full of ****.

maybe finally put together a "how to" video for hand filing in the field.

i am looking forward to this.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Nice cycle of life post OD, my thoughts exactly.