A concrete problem

[treehumper]

Ok, I'm new to this board but came here hoping to get some feedback on removal of a red oak with a 10' column of concrete in it and starts just above the root collar.

The tree is about 40" DBH situated in the backyard about 1' away from the house. concrete may be anywhere from 12" to 20" in diameter. Access by crane would be over the a 2 storey house from the street 90' away. Residential electrical service and 2 huge oaks on the street.

How have any of you cut thru the concrete or what did you do to get around it?

Oh and they want the stump ground out so leaving the trunk standing isn't really an option at this stage.

 

[beowulf343]

Bring spare chains!!

We usually try to leave a tall stem then using that leverage try to break it over. Dozers work when you can get them in there. Have had a couple we cut the wood to expose the concrete, hook to the crane, then go to town with a jackhammer. PITA!!!

 

[treehumper]

No dozer access. We'll be lucky to get a decent stumper in there. Sounds like what yer saying is I'm gonna have to work. arrrrrgggghhh....

 

[B-Edwards]

I did a White Oak a few years back that had concrete in it, no access except for a very small skidsteer . It was a nightmare , I was new to being in business for myself .We used smaller saws and cut wedges till we found the hard stuff and then used a sledge hammer on it and a big bar to get it out. It was a miserable job, 24 inch stick weighed over a thousand pounds ( BIG WHITE OAK) I know because we took it to the landfill . I lost big money on that tree, had it notched at 2:30 the first day -6 days later we finished. Dont mean to bring you down or worry you, just saying it was a pita but do-able . Good luck. Oh yeah we ground the stump also. Man your story brings back awful memories.

 

[BostonBull]

This is a really great time for this post. Not too many guys are super busy right now and will probably read this.

This is the reason allot of established co.'s have in their contracts language concerning undisclosed utilities, and concrete/rocks/pipes in trees that cant be seen otherwise. I have seen trees that were 1400 removals jump to 10,000!!!!! Because of the amount of concrete in them. Even if you got a crane big enough to go over everything, how much do you think that butt will weigh?

Best bet is to explain to the customer that these are VERY rare circumstances, and that it will be double the price to get this out as you now have another days worth of work to do.

How do you plan on getting it out once its on the ground? It has concrete in it not feathers!

Good Luck and please keep us posted.

 

[treehumper]

I hear ya! I'm at the estimation stage, the client knows about the concrete. We've discussed the crane option from 2 different locations. I've priced a 115 Ton crane that'll give me the reach and lift capacity. I'm figuring about 4000 lbs for the concrete and I'll have about 7000 lb lift capacity based on the set up discussed with the crane operator. Found a concrete chain saw but the rental company doesn't have it anymore. Dang! That could've made it a bit easier. I'm thinking a concrete saw then chisel hammer.

Have to get the road closed, hire 2 cops and schedule it for Sunday. The crane and "accessories" come in at $6000 The chisel hammer is $75/day (all in Canuck bucks). That could save me a couple of days labour. If I can pick the concrete over the house and out to the street that would be sweet!

The good news is the client is familiar with the cost of crane rentals and the concrete embedded in the tree.

He's also pretty realistic about the cost.

 

[Dadatwins]

Worst one I ever did had concrete and steel rebar in it to reinforce the concrete. Lots of old chain and a sledgehammer made for a long day. Good part is the tree will usually not grow into the concrete, the cement will actually be separate inside the tree. I did one by actually ripping the trunk in half, the trunk separated amd the cement column fell over and broke up. Charge accordingly, it will be a long day.

 

[begleytree]

I
. If I can pick the concrete over the house and out to the street that would be sweet!

yup, then the concrete falls out of the buttlog 1/2 way across the house roof.....
that'd bite.
-Ralph

 

[04ultra]

yup, then the concrete falls out of the buttlog 1/2 way across the house roof.....
that'd bite.
-Ralph

Yup could be an insurance nightmare....hunk of concrete in the basement...



.

 

[treehumper]

yup, then the concrete falls out of the buttlog 1/2 way across the house roof.....
that'd bite.
-Ralph

yeah. I'll be looking closely at that scenario. I like the idea of ripping the log and going for the separation on the ground. Not sure it would remain intact but that'll depend on whether or not it's reinforced.

 

[treevet]

In a book I read along time ago, I think it was "Green Leaves" by Davey Tree, it compared cavity filling to cavity filling in teeth. Even had pictures comparing the two. I think around the end of WW2 there was some affluence and a big tree care practice was pumping concrete in cavities. I ve found concrete as high as 60 feet in a tree a few years ago. Big ass load of it too. I ve dropped many trees after finding a big load w the saw when notching and not knowing in advance it is there. Then having to just keep running the back cut into it until all the wood is breeched to the notch on both sides. memories of some 60 foot , 3' dia stems by city streets w a rope pulling broke the concrete and fell nervously in the right place. Time and materials and a signed contract is advisable even if the guy is nice.

 

[treevet]

I just wanted to add that after many instances of trees sheering off just above the concrete bcs it acts like a fulcrom (sp?) as the tree is flexible and concrete is not, and the fact that decay was not inhibited this practice is only used in very few circumstances.

 

[treehumper]

Signed contract for sure. I'll be reviewing this and including an override clause in the event of anything unforeseen.

 

[BarkingMad]

For sure, T+M terms and a signed contract!!!
I think the suggestion of clearing the concrete befor the lift might be the safest. Otherwise you don't really know what you've got to pick up.

I recall the Maryland Liberty Tree in Annapolis a few years ago. They knew it had some concrete in it, so a bulldozer was standing by after the trunk was limbed off. When the dozer touched it, the trunk fell away like a sheath from a 40' pillar. Cool.

 

[turnkey4099]

Signed contract for sure. I'll be reviewing this and including an override clause in the event of anything unforeseen.

Yep, looks like the ideal place for a 'cost plus' contract.

Harry K

 

[treehumper]

We've got a go on this after the boss stepped in and offered a new pricing structure. So he's thinking the concrete is crumbling and not really an issue. Clean up is offered at an additional cost Otherwise all we do is chip and leave the rest.

If the weather permits we'll begin on Thursday. Storm damage is keeping us crazy busy right now and adding to the list of challenging removals!

 

[CoreyTMorine]

Thanks for keeping us updated. Can you get a Rayco jr. or equivalent stumper in there? If so it might be worth considering using the stumper to fall the stub, like a beaver would fall a tree. Cut a big gouge into one side for the face cut, then use a pull rope and start grinding the back cut from the other side. Anything is better than hitting concrete with a saw, I hate that .

Good luck, have fun and maybe take some pics.

 

[treehumper]

Good idea but there's a house in the way. The tree is tight to the back of the house.

Lot's of files and a back up chain to boot.

Buddy of mine is coming to help and he's got some wicked camera equip. Pics could definitely be had!

 

[CoreyTMorine]

This definitely sounds like one for the record books. A landscaper buddy of mine recently used a concrete saw to remove a blow down stump. He said that the saw did not cut wood very well, but that he could get right into the dirt with it and not lose any cutting performance. I’m sure you can find another rental place that does have a concrete saw. How many people in Toronto? 2 million or so?

How much room between the tree and the house?

 

[lxt]

got burnt on a sycamore, homeowner had it cavity filled years prior to the removal & didnt tell me. well the last ten foot of tree was nothin but concrete, when I approached the home owner his reply was he didnt say anything cause then he felt no one would want to do it, or would charge a fortune.

but he had me by the short hairs, my contract didnt have a clause in it for this. cut till dull, axe hammer & wedge repeat as often as neccesary this was my strategy.

my contracts following that job all had clauses in em(& then some).

carefull on these you can loose yer butt.

LXT..............