A confession

[treeman82]

This may turn into a flame war, but let's see what happens.

I'm a licensed arborist... I'd like to say that right off the bat. As soon as I decided I wanted to perform tree care in the state of CT I obtained the necessary licensing.

Over the years I've helped a bunch of unlicensed companies out by climbing just as I am sure many on here have done. I've never made a secret of the fact that I don't take well to being screwed over, or treated poorly.
One of my first companies I ever climbed for locally destroyed some of my equipment and never replaced it... nothing terrible, a rope and a 20' logging chain... I enabled them to do some jobs that were WELL beyond their abilities. One day after I stopped working for them they decided to try to steal a pruning job from me... I immediately turned them in to the DEP by using the CTPA's anonymous form. I believe it cost them $1,000.

Another dirt bag hired me for 2 days... he paid me fairly, but even after he was THOROUGHLY warned by his friends and existing workers to treat me descently he still treated me like dirt... whatever. I saw him in the bar one day, he acted as though he were my friend... he met a similar fate to the first piece of scum I've mentioned here.

Since that time I've only worked for 2 other people... 1 a licensed arborist who I consider a friend, and the other is on the verge of retirement... a very descent man who I also consider a friend.

A few months ago I bid some pruning work for a HOA that I work for, and their landscaper came up to me on a jobsite yelling and screaming about how I should stay away from the HOA and so forth and so on. I knew that he was an unlicensed arborist and pesticide applicator. One day when it was raining I called the DEP directly and turned his ass in. To the best of my knowledge he was asessed with almost 100K in fines. He came up to me one day after having cooled down and asked why I would do such a thing... I simply responded that I wish to co-exist with other companies in peace, but if they wish to ***k me I won't stand for it.

A few months ago I had bid a storm damage job on my turf for almost 20K. Another company got the job, whatever. The guy who got the job needed help to get the job done... we had agreed that he would pay me some money for the use of my cribbing... he shorted me on that, and bragged to a friend about all his contacts, his shady dealings, and so on. He asked if he could dump some wood at my yard, I said sure, because my yard is much closer than his. He sent his guys over with all the ugly stuff, the nice wood went back to his yard. After a period of time to let him try to make good on the situation I finally decided to send him a bill for the money he shorted me, and also for some costs that I incurred because of him. He called me last night to find out why I sent the bill... I explained my end... "we agreed on a couple hundred bucks... $150 is not a couple hundred bucks" and beyond that. He the stance of bascailly I didn't deserve anything. Tuesday morning I will be calling the DEP again to turn his ass in. I'm hoping he has a history with them.... increases the amount of the fine by a LOT.


I'm sorry if you guys don't feel that I should be doing this, but I am tired of being screwed over... I'll give you the shirt off my back if you need help... but don't screw me. Do you guys believe that I should just let these people get away with this crap, or am I right in believing that they should pay for their actions?

 

[troythetreeman]

ive done some "dept collecting" myself, if it was toward the other end of the legal spectrum...
a friend of mine once defended me when a girl said, "i dont like him, hes an #######" by saying, "yup, but hes the nicest ####### youre ever going to meet"
i will help anyone i see who needs help, just the other day i shut the entire freeway down to push a lady stalled in the center lane to the shoulder
it wasnt legal, but it was the right thing to do, she said she had been sitting there 15 minutes
blows my mind, traffic backed up for miles and no one before me thought to help her, and in doing so help ever other motorist on the road trying to get somewhere
im not big on handouts however and if you swing at me you better ####ing duck, cause youre gunna get hit
choices have consequences, they chose to do what they did, they knew the possible consequences and did it anyway
ive done some wrong things, ive even done some right things that could have ended very badly for me
but i did them prepared to accept the consequences
if you give a guy an ax to grind, dont be surprised when he hits you with it

 

[Tree Pig]

82 I usually agree with your opinions and post. But I have to tell you unless I have misread this post I think you may be a little off base here. I have nothing wrong with you calling and complaining about unlicensed people doing prune work in your area. But it sounds like you only turn them in after you work for them and dont get paid (or paid what you deserve). I guess my point is I think to work for them and let them ride on your Cert until you get upset (even if your right for being mad) then turning them in because you got the shaft. Its just morally wrong. Get your agreements in writing and settle it other ways after.

 

[CNBTreeTrimming]

You should keep your distance. Helping those people in any capacity only makes you an enabler for them to continue dishonestly. If they aren't working legitimately I personally wouldn't trust them to pay me as you've encountered.

 

[treeman75]

wasn't there another thread about this same thing?

 

[ducaticorse]

This may turn into a flame war, but let's see what happens.

I'm a licensed arborist... I'd like to say that right off the bat. As soon as I decided I wanted to perform tree care in the state of CT I obtained the necessary licensing.

Over the years I've helped a bunch of unlicensed companies out by climbing just as I am sure many on here have done. I've never made a secret of the fact that I don't take well to being screwed over, or treated poorly.
One of my first companies I ever climbed for locally destroyed some of my equipment and never replaced it... nothing terrible, a rope and a 20' logging chain... I enabled them to do some jobs that were WELL beyond their abilities. One day after I stopped working for them they decided to try to steal a pruning job from me... I immediately turned them in to the DEP by using the CTPA's anonymous form. I believe it cost them $1,000.

Another dirt bag hired me for 2 days... he paid me fairly, but even after he was THOROUGHLY warned by his friends and existing workers to treat me descently he still treated me like dirt... whatever. I saw him in the bar one day, he acted as though he were my friend... he met a similar fate to the first piece of scum I've mentioned here.

Since that time I've only worked for 2 other people... 1 a licensed arborist who I consider a friend, and the other is on the verge of retirement... a very descent man who I also consider a friend.

A few months ago I bid some pruning work for a HOA that I work for, and their landscaper came up to me on a jobsite yelling and screaming about how I should stay away from the HOA and so forth and so on. I knew that he was an unlicensed arborist and pesticide applicator. One day when it was raining I called the DEP directly and turned his ass in. To the best of my knowledge he was asessed with almost 100K in fines. He came up to me one day after having cooled down and asked why I would do such a thing... I simply responded that I wish to co-exist with other companies in peace, but if they wish to ***k me I won't stand for it.

A few months ago I had bid a storm damage job on my turf for almost 20K. Another company got the job, whatever. The guy who got the job needed help to get the job done... we had agreed that he would pay me some money for the use of my cribbing... he shorted me on that, and bragged to a friend about all his contacts, his shady dealings, and so on. He asked if he could dump some wood at my yard, I said sure, because my yard is much closer than his. He sent his guys over with all the ugly stuff, the nice wood went back to his yard. After a period of time to let him try to make good on the situation I finally decided to send him a bill for the money he shorted me, and also for some costs that I incurred because of him. He called me last night to find out why I sent the bill... I explained my end... "we agreed on a couple hundred bucks... $150 is not a couple hundred bucks" and beyond that. He the stance of bascailly I didn't deserve anything. Tuesday morning I will be calling the DEP again to turn his ass in. I'm hoping he has a history with them.... increases the amount of the fine by a LOT.


I'm sorry if you guys don't feel that I should be doing this, but I am tired of being screwed over... I'll give you the shirt off my back if you need help... but don't screw me. Do you guys believe that I should just let these people get away with this crap, or am I right in believing that they should pay for their actions?

All I can say is that I WISH MA was set up like CT. I'd be calling on the CL hacks all day long. In MA all you have to do to work trees is put an add on CL, buy a saw and have at it. No regulation whatsoever. Look at the adds for craps sake! "Pro tree guy, I also do fences, masonry, accounting, babysitting, quantum physics, wealth management, and demo work, will beat anyone's prices anywhere in the state of MA".. ABSURD!

 

[tree MDS]

All I can say is that I WISH MA was set up like CT. I'd be calling on the CL hacks all day long. In MA all you have to do to work trees is put an add on CL, buy a saw and have at it. No regulation whatsoever. Look at the adds for craps sake! "Pro tree guy, I also do fences, masonry, accounting, babysitting, quantum physics, wealth management, and demo work, will beat anyone's prices anywhere in the state of MA".. ABSURD!

I thought Mass had the arborist law?

 

[ducaticorse]

i thought mass had the arborist law?

nope

The best we can do here is call the labor dept and rat out guys working crews with no comp. That's good for 500 a day per man until a policy is bound, which takes about 2 weeks if you're a new outfit.

 

[treeman82]

For the record, I don't turn people in because they burn me for money, or wreck my gear... I turn them in on principle... I won't stand for being stolen from... or if you are going to treat me like dirt, then that's what you are doing... don't act like you are my friend... don't come up to me yelling and screaming about something I have every right to do, and you have none. If you're out of your area and ask for my help... which I will certainly provide, don't burn me for my costs, don't treat me like crap... don't tell me that I don't deserve anything for my time, don't pretend as though you are my friend... understand that you are a piece of crap in my eyes, and leave me the heck alone. These people as I understand are unlicensed which is a weakness of theirs that I can LEGALLY prey upon.

 

[ducaticorse]

For the record, I don't turn people in because they burn me for money, or wreck my gear... I turn them in on principle... I won't stand for being stolen from... or if you are going to treat me like dirt, then that's what you are doing... don't act like you are my friend... don't come up to me yelling and screaming about something I have every right to do, and you have none. If you're out of your area and ask for my help... which I will certainly provide, don't burn me for my costs, don't treat me like crap... don't tell me that I don't deserve anything for my time, don't pretend as though you are my friend... understand that you are a piece of crap in my eyes, and leave me the heck alone. These people as I understand are unlicensed which is a weakness of theirs that I can LEGALLY prey upon.

Bro, if anything, turn them in to protect your hard earned livelihood, and to uphold the standards of your profession. The crackhead, outta work jonesin chumps are diluting the F out of us!

 

[fdoberman]

The question posed is very interesting.

When you work for unlicensed vendors you in effect become a whore, selling your license as well as your labor. That relationship seems to have become standard among licensed fields of endeavor, be it arborist, plumber, electrician or many others.

Unfortunately doing so rarely enables the whore to call the shots. In the instant case, as I read it, you either call the shots, or you blow the customer in to the State as a method of punishment. My feeling is your days of whoring are limited.

 

[tree MDS]

My company is licensed and registered with the DEP. The license just isn't in my name. Not exactly sure of the legality on that one.. to tell you the truth, I really don't care either. I rarely get called to prune trees anyway (actually been doing a little more pruning lately). That said, I am better than anyone I have ever seen at it (licensed or otherwise). Seriously, not just bragging here.

There was a time when it had lapsed, and didn't have any sort of license at all pretty recently. I still would do an odd prune here and there. It actually made it more fun, being all risky and illegal! :msp_scared:

 

[tree MDS]

Bro, if anything, turn them in to protect your hard earned livelihood, and to uphold the standards of your profession. The crackhead, outta work jonesin chumps are diluting the F out of us!

I can think of plenty of total hacks that somehow managed to pass the test, and are now hiding behind the license. One in particular, does hatracks all over the place! I got called back to an old customer's place last week (we had lost contact, then got reconnected, long story). This guy had been in there last. You should have seen what they did to this beautiful 150 year old red oak! 4" x 24" long stub, numerous dog-ears and flushcuts, etc., etc. Total disrespect for the tree, the license and just the overall trade in general!

 

[thepheniox]

It's simple. Stop working for these other unlicensed companies. Sounds to me like it's ok to work for them only if it benefits you fully. If you have a problem with unlicensed companies then always have a problem with them. I'm also sure you always do everything above board by the book. Your not taking cash from them are you?

 

[treeclimber101]

It's simple. Stop working for these other unlicensed companies. Sounds to me like it's ok to work for them only if it benefits you fully. If you have a problem with unlicensed companies then always have a problem with them. I'm also sure you always do everything above board by the book. Your not taking cash from them are you?

No one in there right mind would ever answer that question fully you fool , why would it matter anyway how he is compensated . Like me I receive my payment in wood chips and meatballs ... As far as the "turning" someone in thing I believe Karma can be a real ##### sometimes and just watch just saying

 

[treeman82]

All I am saying is that I've had it with getting screwed over in business... if somebody is going to do it to me, I'm going to use any weakness of theirs that I can find against them... so long as it doesn't get me thrown in jail.

 

[DDM]

Just out of idle curiosity... Do these people have any idea you turned them in?

 

[oldirty]

they do now if they hang on the net in the arbor world...


i'd like to know more of the story. how exactly did you get screwed anyhow?

 

[DDM]

they do now if they hang on the net in the arbor world...

Yah my sentiments exactly....

 

[tree MDS]

All I am saying is that I've had it with getting screwed over in business... if somebody is going to do it to me, I'm going to use any weakness of theirs that I can find against them... so long as it doesn't get me thrown in jail.

It just seems to me that you're always having a problem with somebody. Maybe you should think about that a little before you go on your next snitchfest. No offence, but I gotta speak my mind.