A few views from the trenches

[PES+]

Tis the season.....

Went to see a local dealer who lost his tech........tech quit cold

The offering wage to replace 8 to 10 an hour and the words that still leave me slack jawed.

"We can't bill for all the time it actually takes to fix the stuff"

I did not have the stomach to ask just how much of the time you would be able to charge for (he carries several lines that have a warrantee time allowance chart)

On another note......helping out a different dealer while waiting to pick up my wife from her office practice I was plugging away at a saw that had been forgotten from the pre-crush season while the regular tech installed a brand new carb just received from the manufacturer. After thrity pulls he asked "Now what? It can't be the carb it's brand new"
Brushcutter ran on carb cleaner into the carb so I said to check that the needle was not stuck closed and check the metering diaphram. He opened the carb and the metering chamber was full but still no run. I checked the metering diaphram and it was far too thin but had no holes that I could detect. A new metering diaphram and it started second pull cold.

I will now gently remind him on a regular basis that just because something is new does not mean it can be ruled out as a cause of a problem.

So hows business for the rest of you guys?

 

[bwalker]

I cant imagine you can get a tech of any skill to work for $8-10 per hour...
I dont know about the OPE industry, but do have some expiereance with ORV service departments. I can say without reservation that many jobs take longer than book times because the "techs" have little or no training, are inexpiereanced or just dont give a ****. Sometimes its a combo of all three.

 

[belgian]

. I checked the metering diaphram and it was far too thin but had no holes that I could detect. A new metering diaphram and it started second pull cold.

Pest, you triggered my interest here. What exactly do you mean with "far too thin" ? I tinker a lot on older chainsaws and any info on carbs is very welcome. thanks in advance

 

[Sprig]

Tis the season.....

Went to see a local dealer who lost his tech........tech quit cold

The offering wage to replace 8 to 10 an hour and the words that still leave me slack jawed.

"We can't bill for all the time it actually takes to fix the stuff"

I did not have the stomach to ask just how much of the time you would be able to charge for (he carries several lines that have a warrantee time allowance chart)

On another note......helping out a different dealer while waiting to pick up my wife from her office practice I was plugging away at a saw that had been forgotten from the pre-crush season while the regular tech installed a brand new carb just received from the manufacturer. After thrity pulls he asked "Now what? It can't be the carb it's brand new"
Brushcutter ran on carb cleaner into the carb so I said to check that the needle was not stuck closed and check the metering diaphram. He opened the carb and the metering chamber was full but still no run. I checked the metering diaphram and it was far too thin but had no holes that I could detect. A new metering diaphram and it started second pull cold.

I will now gently remind him on a regular basis that just because something is new does not mean it can be ruled out as a cause of a problem.

So hows business for the rest of you guys?

Good post Pest. As for the tech quitting.........hm, 8-10@hr attitude, no frikken wonder, sheesh, and what's their shop time worth? 50+ an hour? Good Gord! :bang: :bang: "Oh its so hard ta find decent help now-a-days."

*sigh*

Kk, I go now.

 

[PES+]

Pest, you triggered my interest here. What exactly do you mean with "far too thin" ? I tinker a lot on older chainsaws and any info on carbs is very welcome. thanks in advance

I am still quite puzzled by the situation myself and hopefully the replaced diaphram is still there when I return next week as I want to try it in another carb on a working unit to see if it was indeed the problem or just a coincidence.

I did watch him pull it apart when he tried a different diaphram and the diaphram was bulged out and pressed against the outside atmoshperic reference cover which is why I suggested trying a different diaphram.

It was quite easy to see the two flourescent tubes looking through the diaphram and the replacment was quite opaque.

 

[Cut4fun]

Cant blame the tech for leaving a job paying $8-$10 IMO. Heck, I took a job paying $8 over 20 years ago.
I just dont see how someone could get by making that nowdays.

 

[Lakeside53]

$15 an hour (mid point - experienced) around here, and you can't hold them at that either. The pro customer will pay you more than that to haul bush and cut grass. Another dealer just lost his only tech - went to work for a truck maintenance company "near the bottom" of the ranks and got paid more.


Apart from that, sales business is booming and service is "brisk". Sure you can't bill all the time some dogs that you auger-in on, but others you can get ahead, so it all balances.

 

[Sprig]

I am still quite puzzled by the situation myself and hopefully the replaced diaphram is still there when I return next week as I want to try it in another carb on a working unit to see if it was indeed the problem or just a coincidence.

I did watch him pull it apart when he tried a different diaphram and the diaphram was bulged out and pressed against the outside atmoshperic reference cover which is why I suggested trying a different diaphram.

It was quite easy to see the two flourescent tubes looking through the diaphram and the replacment was quite opaque.

Just a really, really unknowlegable question here. Is it possible that the diaphram was too thin to return to its flat position, ie. just sort of bulged/stretched/bagged out there-by not doing its metering job? Bad rubber, cheap manufacturing, made in China?
Just curious as usual

 

[PES+]

Dunno....I shall attempt to find out.

 

[XJWoody]

I'd suspect the pay-scale is regional

When I ran the Snap-on truck, on Friday's I'd always tote enough loot to cash some paychecks for my (automotive) techs... some were very well paid and some were not. If I recall correct, seemed about an average of apprx $400-500/wk. take-home.

In the mid-90s when I was a textile machine tech, $13/hr seems to stick in my head. Some might have made more, some probably a bit less, but IIRC the lowest paying job in the plant (floor sweeper) made about $9-10/hr. We were expected to have all our own tools... luckily our Dornier machines weren't like cars & change every year: a basic metric set (sockets, combos, T-handle hex) 1.5mm-24mm + 32mm & 36mm would get 99% of it done. The plant provided the odd & precise stuff, and the factory tech school provided a lot of the 'special' tools to the graduates.

I've considered doing small-engine work, but I fear the local (entry-level) wage wouldn't be too good. I'm not too proud to sweep floors again if the situation requires it, but if the money is silly low, my toolbox would have forgot how to roll.

Besides the 'basics' (hand tools & basic diagnostic/measuring stuff) how much 'special tools' is a small engine tech expected to have? Does the typical shop provide all the oddball factory model-specific tools or does the tech normally buy those for themself?

At least from my experiences in textiles (and exposure to the automotive side) a barely equipped and not-so-knowledgeable apprentice-wrench walking is no great loss, but a fully equipped and highly trained 'lead tech' leaving can put a shop in a big bind.

 

[Lakeside53]

Yes, it's regional. Out here it's expensive to live but the tech don't get paid a lot.

Most small shops supply the specialized tools.. if they have them... you be amazed how many still dig out oil seals with screwdrivers and worse.

I buy my own specialized tools - that way I can be a little more independent - but I don't take them to work unless I need to.

 

[mattinky]

I know a guy that runs a Yamaha motorcycle dealership. He knows I'm totally burned out on working on bikes after all these years, but even so he asks me to go to work for him all the time and I turn him down. He cries and cries about his mechanics not being worth a damn.

He came to my house a while back and told me he had one h*ll of an offer for me - He had talked it over with the owner and was prepared to offer me $11 per hour to wrench for him and it would be a mandantory 10 hours a day six days a week. He told me I'd have to keep it hush hush because the other mechanics were only making $9 an hour.

This guy honestly thought he was offering me the deal of a lifetime! I laughed and asked what their hourly labor rate was - $75, When I told him that all the other shops I had worked at gave me half of the hourly rate and that's what it would take for me to work there he told me I was out of line. When I told him that the first bike shop I ever worked at in 1985 paid me $20 an hour he could'nt believe it. And 60 hours a week at that! I told him I was insulted that he would even make me such a cheapass offer, and said that's why I work out of my own shop - I can charge $40-$50 and hour for myself, pick & choose what I want to work on and the customer gets a good reliable mechanic with 20+ years experience and much better service that he / she gets from his $9 an hour GOONS.

Just to give you an idea of the caliber of his present mechanics: About a year ago a guy brought me a really nice Yamaha ATV to work on, it had spark and would turn over but would'nt start and he thought there might be an ignition / electrical problem. He had called the Yamaha shop in question and had talked to a mechanic about the problem - the mechanic told him that if the engine would turn over when he pushed the starter button that the problem could'nt possibly be in the ignition - they also told him it would be at least $1000 to check out the electrical system! (I SWEAR I'm telling the truth about this) I checked it out for him while he waited and found that the flywheel key was sheared, new key and she fired right up. I charged him $80 and he was tickled to death

Just because a shop is big and fancy does'nt mean the techs working there know what they're doing. And just because a guy works out of his home shop does'nt mean he does'nt know what he's doing either. It's a real pain in the a** to work on a lot of motorcycles, especially ATVs and they want to pay you $11 and charge $75 ???? They can kiss my entire a**. I can't believe any good mechanic would work for such low pay. I know quite a few guys that have wrenched in the past and have now given it up because nobody wants to pay them a decent wage.

The average person (including shop owners) has absolutely no idea what it's like to twist wrenches for a living. They just don't appreciate the skills that a good mechanic has and how stressfull and frustrating the job can be at times. They don't realize that in a lot of cases you have way more time in repairing something than you can charge for. They drag in some pile of crap ATV thats been sitting in a barn for 20 years and expect you to make it run like new for $50. When you point out all the things that are wrong and tell them it will cost $2500 to get it in good shape again they think you're trying to screw them............

I constantly hear people whine and cry that they can't find anyone to work on their OPE for them and when they do they complain about the high prices and the bad service. I just don't get it............

Matt

 

[chainsawjunky]

I know a guy that runs a Yamaha motorcycle dealership. He knows I'm totally burned out on working on bikes after all these years, but even so he asks me to go to work for him all the time and I turn him down. He cries and cries about his mechanics not being worth a damn.

He came to my house a while back and told me he had one h*ll of an offer for me - He had talked it over with the owner and was prepared to offer me $11 per hour to wrench for him and it would be a mandantory 10 hours a day six days a week. He told me I'd have to keep it hush hush because the other mechanics were only making $9 an hour.

This guy honestly thought he was offering me the deal of a lifetime! I laughed and asked what their hourly labor rate was - $75, When I told him that all the other shops I had worked at gave me half of the hourly rate and that's what it would take for me to work there he told me I was out of line. When I told him that the first bike shop I ever worked at in 1985 paid me $20 an hour he could'nt believe it. And 60 hours a week at that! I told him I was insulted that he would even make me such a cheapass offer, and said that's why I work out of my own shop - I can charge $40-$50 and hour for myself, pick & choose what I want to work on and the customer gets a good reliable mechanic with 20+ years experience and much better service that he / she gets from your $9 an hour GOONS.

Just because a shop is big and fancy does'nt mean the techs working there know what they're doing. It's a real pain in the a** to work on a lot of motorcycles, especially ATVs and they want to pay you $11 and charge $75 ???? They can kiss my entire a**. I can't believe any good mechanic would work for such low pay. I know quite a few guys that have wrenched in the past and have now given it up because nobody wants to pay them a decent wage.

The average person (including shop owners) has absolutely no idea what it's like to twist wrenches for a living. They just don't appreciate the skills that a good mechanic has and how stressfull and frustrating the job can be at times. They don't realize that in a lot of cases you have way more time in repairing something than you can charge for. They drag in some pile of crap ATV thats been sitting in a barn for 20 years and expect you to make it run like new for $50. When you point out all the things that are wrong and tell them it will cost $2500 to get it in good shape again they think you're trying to screw them............ I just don't get it..... Matt

You got it, theres just some of those times were you want to pick up the :censored:engine and chuck it across the room(maybe that's just me since I'm still learning some stuff). Still makes me mad when someone comes to you thinkin what they are bringin is in good condition and that you can get it runnin for cheap when it's really a heap of junk that needs to be parted out or tossed in the landfill. Evan

 

[XJWoody]

Goons

I caught a goon hammering on my junk once (Yeah I should have known better)

I'll gladly pay extra to be bent over & Fuxed if my junk is fixed up perfectly, better than my expectations. But I'll be Fuxing Hostile if some goon expects less than being skinned alive for being caught hammering on my junk with a cheap claw hammer and a screwdriver when a "correct" gear puller (that I offered to lend him) would have done. Dude was lucky he had witnesses. :skull: Lesson learned was buy more tools, work on own junk when ya can. Trust and verify.

 

[bwalker]

Copius hammer use is the least of ones worries at some places....
I know of a tech that crashed a customers ATV on a "test" ride and totaled it. Another guy rebuilt a snowmobile motor sans a wrist pin bearing.
I could go on and on.
The old adage that you pay for what you get typicly is true and at $10 per hour you are not going to get much.

 

[Jim Mesthene]

If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

 

[spike60]

I wish I had time to get into this one now. One thing that has yet to be mentioned is the seasonality of this business. If there is plenty of work all year long, then the tech will generate billed hours all year. But if you are into the part of the season where the work dries up, then it's kind of hard to pay the guy the wage he deserves.

Another thing is that there is a fair amount of versatility required. We had a guy a couple of years ago who claimed his experience was on everything from cut off saws to excavators. He owned a motorcycle shop, he owned a gun shop. He said he could do anything. One day he was struggling with a 372. I asked what was up and he says. "How do you get the muffler off this thing?" It was bad enough that he didn't know, but worse that he couldn't figure it out. Didn't know how to adjust a 2 cycle carb. He didn't last as long as some his own businesses probably did.

At our place a guy has to know 2 and 4 cycle. He has to be able to uncrate and set up the Exmarks. He has to be able to install a back hoe or loader on a compact tractor. He has to be able to rebuild the pumps and motors on the commercial stuff. He has to be able to install the Western Plows. He has to be reliable enough to do P & D. The only two people on the planet that seem to fit this criteria are me and my partner. We just do it all ourselves. (And this is another reason that we don't want anything to do with the box store junk) We have one guy that helps us, who is actually pretty good in the shop, when he isn't in rehab or something.

We work hard when it's busy and goof off when it's slow.

 

[Goat]

It's not just techs, its all across the board. I left the machinist trade because it just became pointless. The wages have dropped to the point that a roofer makes way more than you do. On top of that most of the company owners were pulling scams that comprimise employee saftey. So now you are underpaid and your job is dangerous because the co. owner is cutting corners to stay in biz with the competition.

I will never understand the job market, a good machinist is getting harder and harder to find because they moved on to something else and the newer generation isn't going to school to learn the trade, so we are a dying breed. And yet the employers are still offering wages according to statistics from the 70s-80s.

Like you guys have said, most owners haven't a clue what it takes to fix a saw or hold a cylinder bore to 0.0001" they all just think of us as knuckle dragging wrench monkeys.

 

[RiverRat2]

+1

I buy my own specialized tools - that way I can be a little more independent - but I don't take them to work unless I need to.

Me 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[turnkey4099]

On leaves from the AF, I would lend a hand in my old man's small engine shop. I always wondered how he stayed in business as noone was willing to pay a reasonable rate for the work done. Just the tear down and cleanup of a 1 lunger to replace a carb took time. Time that could not be billed at a reasonable rate.

Our local shop closed a few years ago. I was buddied up with the owner and as he was closing he showed me one reason. Reached in a drawer and pulled out a stack about 4" thick of bills he had been stiffed on.

Harry K