Advanced Rigging Walking Brush and Wood

[Magnum783]

Yes John, Many times, and well worth the time and effort not to mention peace of mind.

Excellent point, thanks.

jomoco

Ok hate to bring up a old thread but jomoco sent me here and I get the concept now but I still don't get how you get the above mentioned #2 and #3 block up in the neighboring tree. Are you climbing the neighboring trees and putting the block in there with an eye sling or are you shooting a bull rope up with the big shot or throw ball or am I total idiot. Please help????
Jared

 

[jomoco]

Reasons for Wood Walking

Ok hate to bring up a old thread but jomoco sent me here and I get the concept now but I still don't get how you get the above mentioned #2 and #3 block up in the neighboring tree. Are you climbing the neighboring trees and putting the block in there with an eye sling or are you shooting a bull rope up with the big shot or throw ball or am I total idiot. Please help????
Jared

Hey there Jared,

Because wood walking with 2-3 lowering points takes alot of time and forethought for both climber and ground crew that involves complex rigging and teamwork, I only use it when 1, I can't get a crane to the tree to be removed, 2, It is one of those trees with a huge spread over many targets and a very limited landing zone under just one of the lowering points.

Most, but not all of the times I use this technique have been in very large trees that can be wider than they are tall. I have on occasion used the system in two trees in relatively close proximity to each other.

And yes I set the rigging points myself as I work the tree from the initial lowering point above the LZ, and many times these lowering points need to be braced and reinforced to take the tremendous lateral strain exerted on them by this unusual but sometimes vital technique.

I hope I've answered your question.

Good luck and be careful with this technique until you become familiar with the forces at play when using it. It nearly always requires either a GRCS or Hobbs device to use this technique to it's true potential.

jomoco

 

[CoreyTMorine]

For smaller loads you can put the rig point in a retrievable fashion and let it outonce the load is near vertical.

The load line runs up through what starts as a redirct, once the load is cut free the rigging anchor line is let out to become the drift line.

Sometimes the ground needs to keep crankin on it so the load does not lower too far, sometimes the drift line needs to be let uot just enough to clear the obstical.

Terrific application, it’s funny while reading through this thread I had the same idea, I wonder if there is something that suggested it in an earlier post? Anyway, by using a remote block for your #1 station the climber can take part in the lowering. Simply anchor the remote station centrally in the tree with a fig 8 or port a wrap, then once the work is cut off, and while the guys are cranking it up, the climber can move to the centrally located remote anchor and lower the #1 rig point as the work clears the structure. This allows you to work with a more standard crew of 2 or 3, on which only 1 or 2 have to be competent riggers. This can be critically important when estimating costs. Although generally on a job like that you won’t be bidding against anyone, it’s just a matter of affordability for the customer.

For guys thinking about giving this a try its sometimes really useful to have a short tag line butt tied to the work, the climber can use it to direct the work while it is being cranked up the #1 rig point, then throw it down so the crew can use it to align the work as it nears the ground.

For guys who have done this a few times; how do you handle your face cuts when working big wood? I generally find myself making a big pie slice so that the face has plenty of room to close, but then I have this big pie slice that I have bobble out of the cut and eventually take care of. The biggest walking tree I had to do was in the middle of a nursery surrounded by green houses, they were all plastic wrapped and the manager said it would be no problem to patch a section if a limb or whatever did rip the plastic. On that project I just threw the pie, and if it happened to fly out of the cut while I was finishing it was no big deal. I’ve been thinking about taking a small shallow face (saw dust only) and back cutting with a slice cut. But I think this would only be efficient in wood up to about 10”. Any thoughts would be useful.

 

[polingspig]

I have never had to use a system like this yet, but the company I learned with did. It was one of the reasons I decided to start climbing. I love this thread!!! This is what ArboristSite should be.

 

[DDM]

Great thread!

 

[jomoco]

Face Cuts for Walking Big Wood

Originally Posted by CoreyTMorine:

For guys who have done this a few times; how do you handle your face cuts when working big wood? I generally find myself making a big pie slice so that the face has plenty of room to close, but then I have this big pie slice that I have bobble out of the cut and eventually take care of. The biggest walking tree I had to do was in the middle of a nursery surrounded by green houses, they were all plastic wrapped and the manager said it would be no problem to patch a section if a limb or whatever did rip the plastic. On that project I just threw the pie, and if it happened to fly out of the cut while I was finishing it was no big deal. I’ve been thinking about taking a small shallow face (saw dust only) and back cutting with a slice cut. But I think this would only be efficient in wood up to about 10”. Any thoughts would be useful.
__________________

If I understand your question right Corey,

At the point that I'm into the big wood to be walked, I'll make my face cut pointing into the exact direction of the first rigging or walking point, then have the ground men on the hobbs preload that bull line beyond the weight of the piece to be cut and walked, then I'll start my finishing cut but will stop when the hinge wood is about an inch thick, at this point I'll brace or triangulate myself onto the lower or remaining wood via lanyard and bodyline so I'm nice and secure, then I'll signal the guys on the hobbs to crank away on it until the piece to be walked stands up and hinges towards the the first rigging point, comes free and is stopped by the butt tie line, then one groundman slacks the butt tie line as the other groundmen crank away on the hobbs walking the wood away from me in the direction of the first rigging point.

This is vital to do when the wood to be walked is in close proximity to the roof or target, and must be made to move up and away from the target with no drop whatsoever, in a very controlled manner or else.

I hope I've understood and answered your question correctly, Maybe Mike can do a better job of it with his neat diagrams, Hey Mike help!

Work safe!

jomoco

 

[CoreyTMorine]

Thanks for the reply Jomoco. Actually my question is regarding the piece of wood that comes out of the face cut, the wedge or pie as I call it. If you aim the face cut at the #1 rig or walking point, then the wedge can have a tendency to fall out of the notch. Even a small wedge can break a skylight, and in wood over 8” it could potentially damage a gutter, + sounds horrible if it does hit the roof.

So, how do you keep these oversize wedges under control? I’ve tried a few different things, but mostly it involves extra cutting, which is more time sunk into an already time intensive project.

 

[Slvrmple72]

Thanks for the reply Jomoco. Actually my question is regarding the piece of wood that comes out of the face cut, the wedge or pie as I call it. If you aim the face cut at the #1 rig or walking point, then the wedge can have a tendency to fall out of the notch. Even a small wedge can break a skylight, and in wood over 8” it could potentially damage a gutter, + sounds horrible if it does hit the roof.

So, how do you keep these oversize wedges under control? I’ve tried a few different things, but mostly it involves extra cutting, which is more time sunk into an already time intensive project.

First, great thread Jomoco! Second, CoreyTMorine I have had the same problem and have figured out a couple of ideas that may help with your pie problem. If not dropping the piece is really critical I finish it up with the Silky. It doesnt happen that often only over glass skylights or if I am close enough to the house that a bad bounce off a lower limb or deck railing could send it through a windowpane. Using your chainsaw you can either pull the piece towards you or push it away from you depending on how you orient your bar in the cut. If the weight of the pie piece is going to settle on the bar as it is cut free the chain will want to throw it quick. With a lot of practice you can stop the saw quickly and hold the piece in place with the bar,kill the saw, and grab it. Plan out your cut, instead of always cutting out the face in the same order you may want to do it backwards to get better control of the pie piece. Now for the really big pie piece, the one that will cost you a gutter repair, I have had to screw an eye into it and tie it off so when I cut it free it didnt go anywhere. I also tried cutting progressively bigger face cuts but the pieces would land on the roof and instead of blowing off with the blower they would settle in the gutter and need fished out by hand.A little bit of preparation can save you a lot of headache. Hope this helps.

 

[CoreyTMorine]

Thanks Sliver,

You understood my question exactly. I think finishing with a handsaw is the way to go. Although thinking about the really large pie’s there must be something better than a lag… Eureka!!! Instead of a lag bolt how about a cam, the type used for rock-climbing that would fit into a kerf cut; then you don’t need to drill or force a big screw in.

And yes, your post does help.

 

[Slvrmple72]

I thought about a cam or wedge too but put a strap on it to put around your wrist when you wrestle the big pie piece out two-handed so it doesnt fall. I have only had to do this about twice and by big I mean a pie slice cut out of a limb about 3' in dia. with a face cut opening of 8" or more. It is a heavy and awkward slice o' watermelon!

 

[CoreyTMorine]

I've got some nuts around here somewhere, if i can dig them up I'll try them out in a piece of wood. But i'm busy as heck for the next 2 weeks or so, if somebody else has the time to do this experiment I would love to hear the results.

Maybe nuts and cams could replace slings for certain aplications? Hmm, i wonder?:monkey:

 

[luvthetrobag]

There is always going to be that tree that you can't get a crane to, that's all over the clients house or building, that has many multiple leaders, has a huge spread and only a little bitty courtyard or patch of lawn in which to lower the brush and wood. Many times these trees can be wider than they are tall. Trees like this can be quite challenging for even experienced climbers. Even if there is a good sturdy lowering point directly over the preferred landing pad, how can you safely get brush and wood to land there when it is farther away than the heigth of your lowering point? It seems almost impossible!

This is when the ability to walk brush and wood is often the only viable means of safely getting the tree down. Walking wood is done by using multiple lowering points in the tree to " walk " the wood or brush over to where it can be safely lowered to the ground. It is a very time consuming process that requires alot of forethought and two or sometimes even three teams of ropemen that know how to work together as a team.

For simplicity's sake let's use two seperate lowering points with a pulley or lowering block in each, two Hobbs devices, each manned with two experienced ropers for a total of four ropemen. The second team lowering point is over the preferred landing pad, the first team lowering point is far away say over the roof thirty or so feet from the first. The climber will tie both lowering ropes to the brush or wood to be lowered, and tell team 1 to tighten up their line and wrap it off, then tell team two to slacken their line and stand by. The climber then makes his cut and team 1's rope takes the weight, now the climber tells team 2 tighten their rope while team 1 slackens theirs, this results in the wood or brush "walking" sideways over to team 2's landing pad in a very controlled manner.

There are many variations of this technique that are possible to perform. I even once used it in conjunction with a haulback speedline to take a nightmare Torrey Pine down over the clubhouse on Torrey Pines Golf Course, it took two days to get down, but worked real sweet.

Do any of you other guys notice that working ropes all day is a sure fired way to get muscle cramps regardless of how many banannas you eat. It sure makes me admire how tough sailors in the old days must have been.

I'm curious, what do you other guys call this technique that I call wood walking?

Work Safe

jomoco

You lose height each time you walk what if thats a problem? I guess you have to lift up on the line with a winch/ lowering device.

 

[jefflovstrom]

?

?????-- Don,t you guys get it? jomoco does.
Jeff Lovstrom

 

[CoreyTMorine]

?????-- Don,t you guys get it? jomoco does.
Jeff Lovstrom

What exactly are you trying to say here Jeff? I don't understand the purpose of your post.

 

[Slvrmple72]

?????-- Don,t you guys get it? jomoco does.
Jeff Lovstrom

Get what Jeff? You lost us?