Because the cable is out, and I can't watch Toddlers and Tiaras.
As an aside, a few people here have been hanging their hats on OEM based on the argument that the want something they can simply bolt on.
I don't care who makes it...a piston and cylinder, in my view, are NEVER bolt-and-go parts.
On another note, showing how these topends can run and how they hold up after porting and squish band cutting, does nothing to validate any quality improvements in these kits. You're only re-using the basic casting and the bore plating. Bore plating has not been a major contributor to the failure of these kits. Bailey's addressed that long ago when they went to NiSi, instead of chrome. This thread is about replacement topend quality as they come from the factory, not about what they can be turned into by an experience engine builder/porter? I don't think anyone will deny what the likes of Mastermind and Jacob J can turn these into. But, that's not what's being advertised and sold in this thread. What the market needs is a kit than can be bolted on without concerns of fitment and quality, just like 99% of OEM parts can be.
As an aside, a few people here have been hanging their hats on OEM based on the argument that the want something they can simply bolt on.
I don't care who makes it...a piston and cylinder, in my view, are NEVER bolt-and-go parts.
Mark, your experience with OEM is not the exception, rather the rule IMHO. It disturbs me that we're still, generally speaking, saying the kits posted in the OP are basically there, over inflating the AM quality, and trying to bring OEM down. That's sales, and does not facilitate the goal of continued improvement. Now don't throw me under the bus. That's my opinion, and you don't have to agree. There are still issues with squish bands, port shapes, etc. Are we making progress? In some cases, yes, other cases, not so much. A couple of those cylinders look fantastic, particularly, the Husky ones.I disagree. At near $300 for a Stihl OEM 441 P/C it damn well should be a bolt and go. So far the one and only that I have done is.
I tried hard. There are one or two guys on here that make it nearly impossible to have a conversation with any kind of constructive criticism, which is required for change. If we don't point out the deficiencies, how are they going to fix them?Exactly, your best post in some time!
Mark, your experience with OEM is not the exception, rather the rule IMHO. It disturbs me that we're still, generally speaking, saying the kits posted in the OP are basically there, over inflating the AM quality, and trying to bring OEM down. That's sales, and does not facilitate the goal of continued improvement. Now don't throw me under the bus. That's my opinion, and you don't have to agree. There are still issues with squish bands, port shapes, etc. Are we making progress? In some cases, yes, other cases, not so much. A couple of those cylinders look fantastic, particularly, the Husky ones.
I tried hard. There are one or two guys on here that make it nearly impossible to have a conversation with any kind of constructive criticism, which is required for change. If we don't point out the deficiencies, how are they going to fix them?
Mark, your experience with OEM is not the exception, rather the rule IMHO. It disturbs me that we're still, generally speaking, saying the kits posted in the OP are basically there, over inflating the AM quality, and trying to bring OEM down. That's sales, and does not facilitate the goal of continued improvement. Now don't throw me under the bus. That's my opinion, and you don't have to agree. There are still issues with squish bands, port shapes, etc. Are we making progress? In some cases, yes, other cases, not so much. A couple of those cylinders look fantastic, particularly, the Husky ones.
As an aside, a few people here have been hanging their hats on OEM based on the argument that the want something they can simply bolt on.
I don't care who makes it...a piston and cylinder, in my view, are NEVER bolt-and-go parts.
There are still issues with squish bands, port shapes, etc.
I still don't see where you were being constructive with this thread.
I'm not trying to stir the #### but the way you flip around makes it tough to follow along.
http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/216455.htm
Randy, you're right. That thread was out of frustration, not one of my better moments. My comments about constructive criticism was in reference to the one or two guys that won't hardly let an opinion be stated without trying to cause trouble.
I agree with some of your points Brad- but you know, OEM have shot themselves in the foot time and time again. I have a whole box (probably 20 or so) of MS-440 cylinders that have good bores but are completely junk in my opinion because the plating stops 1/4" to 3/8" from the top of the bore. Could some guy slap those on with a stock piston and base gasket and make a runner? possibly. But I wouldn't risk it in the case of using those cylinders on a customer's saw or passing those jugs off to some guy. These are Stihl-made jugs but Mahle has done similar or worse in the past.
The key component of the open market is competition. Manufacturers are going to get away with as much as possible in terms of profit margins. Mahle's cylinders don't really cost them much more to produce than a lot of these aftermarket companies but their quality control is so high (usually) that they can get away with much higher prices.
The best thing to do in my experience is to educate consumers. An educated customer is usually a much better customer.
And with that I will let it go.
Joe blow dont care about none of that stuff, long as it bolts on, runs, cuts wood and last at least a resonable amount of time is all that matters to most. If they make 10% less power, they will not notice anyway.
Like you said earlier, they should be able to bolt and go with no issues and shouldnt blow up right away.
Bobs question earlier was a direct question on the life span of these AM kits when used without modifcations, or at least thats how I took it.
His replies were about kits that were still working with OEM pistons, rings, clips etc. The only one who said anything about a kit with all the original kit parts was one by JJ and he reported that it didnt work very long.
All the rest of this stuff is BS and until a kit proves that it will work decent and last for sometime with only the original kits componets used they will be avoided by me. Trick is finding the decent ones.
.......and someone else should follow your example!!!:msp_angry:
I have several that have been running for 5 years or better. Unfortunately, I have no idea what particular brand they were. They are all fire wood cutters so who knows how many hours.
I'm thinking you guys are just a little impractical.
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