Alternative to cutting root?

[beastmaster]

Here's my dilemma. An 80 year old Olive tree. Its in a front yard and 2 ft. from a custom paver driveway. Its starting to lift the drive way. Though Olives are a hardy tree, I have told the home owner Its to big of a root to close to the tree to risk cutting it out. I think a little hump in the drive way is a small price to pay to have such a beautiful tree in your front yard(but I'm sort of a red neck) Any Ideas to solve this problem with out cutting? I just kind of hoping for some innovative solutions.

 

[teamtree]

Do you have a picture of the tree/situation?

Can you alter the driveway? There are some new systems on the market billed as a floating driveway. Have seen it work for sidewalks...pretty neat. Don't have the link handy but I think it was in an ArborAge Mag in the last few months.

try invisiblestructures.com

Can you cut out a section of the drive?

At the end of the day, the customer is going to have to choose and I think you are right, the tree is much more important then the driveway. I am sure the lose of a tree would bring down the market value of the house as well.

 

[pdqdl]

Custom pavers?

You don't need a grinder, you need a landscaper!

Those pavers can be lifted, the grade modified, then re-lay the pavers. One of the reasons I like paver installations is how easy they are to change several years after installation.

Even if the grade change would be too big, you could always grind the top 1/2 of the problem roots, then re-install. Not quite as nice as saving the entire root, but better than hacking it off.

 

[treeseer]

Even if the grade change would be too big, you could always grind the top 1/2 of the problem roots, then re-install. Not quite as nice as saving the entire root, but better than hacking it off.

Or, you could grind the bottom half of the paver.

 

[pdqdl]

That's funny!

But it probably wouldn't work too well. Pavers need a certain thickness, otherwise they crumble up when cars drive over them. I guess if the owner really liked the tree, and didn't mind the expense of thinning down all the bricks, it might work.

Just pulling up all the bricks, adding some fill beneath, then putting the bricks back seems like the best solution. Done properly, you could probably do the whole job without being able to detect the grade change in the driveway.

 

[derwoodii]

Many paths (pavers) to enlightenment are available.
Rubber mat.
Bitumen patch.
Flow stone a resin based pebble aggregate mix.
Remove pavers
Divert drive etc etc.
1st ask the HO how much does he luv and value his tree. As you do this inspect the tree for its condition and use full life.
Sadly I will get jobs like this, give them alternative and the $ cost. They look at the bill and change like the wind, saying "well lets get rid of the tree".
I have used the "don't worry about it". We will plant 2 new trees nearby wait 10 years. Then if you're still sooking about a bit of kerb cracking you can consider it then.
Saves a tree, saves client removal or remedial cost and you can plant his 2 trees.

 

[beastmaster]

I am taking in all this advice.
What happens when you grind half of a exposed root?(the exposed part.)I know 20 years ago we would sometimes grind off the top of exposed roots in a front yard,(that and some other bad practices)but I've came a long way since then. I am a lot more educated and pro-tree these days. How harmful to the tree would that be. Does a root compartmentalize(SP?)
I am only now realizing how ignorant I am about a trees root physiology. I am going back to that job this morning. I have been in that Olive tree two days lacing it out, and doing rehabilitation from it being topped 4 years ago. I'm kind of getting attached to that tree. Thanks.

 

[treeseer]

best thing you can do is dig down next to the heaved driveway and dig under those roots and see how big they really are. then maybe you can prune and install a barrier....

 

[pdqdl]

Please consider raising the driveway. This is actually pretty easy with pavers. Concrete or asphalt: no way!

1. Set a 4'-6'straight edge on the raised area, mark how far out you need to raise the driveway to make it look decent. This is VERY easy.

2. Lift the pavers in the area you intend to raise. This part is easy, too!
3. Rake the sand (if any) out from where the pavers were at. It is a common problem that landscapers put in too much sand, then the pavers settle. This may be contributing to your root problem. You can pile the sand on the driveway where you are not pulling the pavers. This is pretty easy, too.
4. Fill the area affected up to the correct grade with rock dust. Cheaper than sand, rock dust will compact to nearly as hard as asphalt, and makes a great base for pavers. This part can be tricky. Notch a 2x4 with a square cutout the exact thickness of your pavers. Use the notched board (running the notch on the existing pavers at the side of the hole) to drag out the high pointsin your grade. Let the top of the root set your grade on the other side.
5. Run a vibratory plate compactor over the entire area. When it compacts, it will settle some. No big deal, this is easy to fix. Available at almost any rental yard.
6. Shovel a little bit of the sand into the exposed area, screening it out like wet concrete with a hand trowel. Use your notched board to grade out next to the pavers. You will probably need to pull out a few more bricks, since the vibratory compactor will have shaken some loose. Be sure that there is at least 1/2" of sand on top of the roots that are causing the problem. The sand should not be deeper than 1" at any place you are doing the repair.
7. Re-lay the bricks back where they came from. Don't worry about minor imperfections in the grade. BE VERY CAREFUL TO LAY THE PAVERS IN STRAIGHT ROWS LINING UP WITH WHERE THEY WERE REMOVED. A string line can be helpful for large repairs. Small imperfections add up, and you will not match up to the other side if you lay them too tight or too loose.
8. When you have replaced all the bricks, run the vibratory compactor over the repaired area. DON"T run it at full throttle. It can break the bricks, and then you loose time doing replacements. This will correct small "ups & downs" in how your pavers are sitting. This makes the repaired bricks settle in to look like they has been there for years, so don't skip this step.
9. Get some very fine dry sand. [This is the trickiest part!) Not easily obtained, it MUST be dry, and very fine. Call a brick vendor, they usually have some. Shovel some out over your repair. If it is not dry, you will need to spread it out thin and wait for the sun to dry it. Push it back and forth with a push broom, allowing it to sift back into the cracks between the pavers.
10. Run the vibrator over the bricks again, avoiding full throttle.
Repeat steps 9 & 10 until all the cracks between the pavers are filled with fine sand. If your sand is coarse, you won't be able to squeeze it into the cracks.

11. After it is all back in place, you should consider adding topsoil to match the paver edge by the tree. Since you raised the driveway, you should raise the adjacent soil to hide the repair. This will also protect the pavers from shifting out of line, even though there is probably an brick edger holding the outside edge.

While this may seem like a lot of work, it is a pretty normal process for a landscaper. Even a patient tree trimmer can do this. You will need to repair the driveway if you grind the roots, so why bother the roots? Just fix the driveay and don't bother the roots.

It won't be more work, it will be less work, and you won't be increasing the risk to the tree.

 

[D Mc]

Please consider raising the driveway.

I agree. Good post.

Dave

 

[derwoodii]

Root physiology is such that any codit may be far less effective and decay may travel easily spreading though out the system.

Weekly I am compelled to do the work of the devil.
The cuttin of tree roots vs paths pipes etc are tasks that I regretfully need to sort. Often I have little choice in the matter "the roots go or tree goes". When I can put up a fight compromise it typical outcome. So I wrestle with hypocrisy knowing of the harm I can do.
Here's a few examples.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=105193

Before and after.
This one I left knowing that I will be asked to do more as path will not fit I will refuse and this is when alternative path treatments are tabled.

Again I ask for others to give their thoughts & criticism as more often its not my preferred solution.

 

[treeseer]

derwoodii, thatt's probably as good as you can do, for a short-term solution. Clearly the root will disrupt the path as it regrows--maybe in 3-5 years it will be cut again, knowing how fast and forcefully those trees grow.

That is, if the tree does not land in the road first, due to loss of support. I would want disclaimers all over the place if I was the guy using the saw; can you picture that eucalyptus on a school bus, chi8ldren crying in mortal agony?

I'm guessing that if the risk from cutting would be higher, that is when you'd refuse and they would raise it? Looks like this one could have gone either way. Nice pics, thanks.

 

[pdqdl]

If you look at the grade on both sides of the sidewalk, it is pretty clear that the sidewalk could have been raised without complications. Concrete sidewalks don't cost that much (per linear foot).

Given that there were already a couple of sections of sidewalk taken out, I would have taken a couple more, raised them all in a gentle slope, and the customer would probably have been more pleased with the result.

Don't just be arborists, guys! You can pretend to be landscapers too. Sidewalk contractors are almost as common as tree trimmers, and you could subcontract the whole job as a profitable solution to the problem.

The counter argument to a new, freshly raised sidewalk would be the additional expense of the tree removal AND the sidewalk replacement where it was damaged by the tree.

 

[beastmaster]

PDQDL, Im going to give a copy of your post to the home owner. Thanks.

 

[derwoodii]

can you picture that eucalyptus on a school bus, chi8ldren crying in mortal agony? .

Crikey treeseer your psychcin me out, still helps to kerb my cuttin hand so ta.

The numbers regards trees vs people are not quite so scary here's a study extract.

Centre for Decision Analysis and Risk Management at Middlesex University to
quantify the risk to the UK public of fatal and non-fatal injuries from falling or fallen
trees and branches. The research identified 64 deaths during the ten years after 1
January 19994. With a UK population of roughly 60 million, this leads to an overall
estimated risk of about one death in 10 million people per year from falling or fallen trees and branches.
So far as non-fatal injuries in the UK are concerned, the number of accident and
emergency cases attributable to being struck by trees (about 55 a year) is
exceedingly small compared with the roughly 2.9 million leisure-related A&E cases
per year. Footballs (262,000), children's swings (10,900) and even wheelie bins
(2,200) are involved in many more incidents.

A comparison of risks of deaths
Table 1 is reproduced from HSE’s Reducing risk, protecting people with the risk of falling and fallen trees
added for comparative purposes.
Table 1 Annual risk of death for various causes over entire population
Cause of death Annual risk Basis of risk and source
Cancer 1 in 387 England and Wales 1999
Injury and poisoning 1 in 3,137 UK 1999
All types of accidents and other external causes
1 in 4,064 UK 1999
All forms of road accident 1 in 16,800 UK 1999
Lung cancer from radon in dwellings
1 in 29,000 England 1996
Gas incident (fire, explosion or carbon monoxide poisoning) 1 in 1,510,000 GB 1994/95-1998/99
From trees 1 in 10,000,000 or less if high wind incidents are excluded This study
From lightning 1 in 18,700,000 England and Wales 1995-99

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/website/forestry.nsf/byunique/infd-7t6bs5

 

[pdqdl]

Interesting statistics...but who can exclude high wind situations from a tree risk analysis?

That would be like studying automobile fatalities, and excluding those occasions when the vehicle was traveling faster than 15 miles per hour [24 kph or 13knots].

It should go without saying that trees will generally fail first when the stress on them is greatest. This would naturally include when the wind is blowing.